[Music]
all right hello everyone uh this is the
cular service provider talk uh going to
kick it off here right on time here at 7
U I'm going to be covering quite a bit
of information here I'm kind of getting
you up to speed on this space it's not
very well known I'm going to talk a
little bit about uh my background kind
of the big players in the space and how
I got started here in Milwaukee uh I am
currently a cybercity solution architect
for a business solutions uh that is
completely unrelated to what I'm talking
about today but I do have a background
in cyber security uh my practical
experience in this space uh has mainly
been at Verizon where I was a principal
Telecom engineer uh deploying hundreds
of cell sites mostly in Wisconsin but
throughout the Midwest and the world
while I work there um I've been really
specializing in what I call the real
world blockchain um or crypto Enthusiast
space I only kind of spend time on
services that I believe you know
actually have a useful real world
purpose um and have a a a path to real
utilization um that makes that makes
sense to me so um I don't spend any time
with dii or nfts or a lot of the other
um kind of areas of of blockchains um I
am a cellular and iot network operator
so I have um I run a small uh company
where I have people kind of host uh
cellular radios as well as iot radios uh
throughout the country but mostly here
in
Wisconsin so uh I guess a little bit
about me as I jump in here this talk
isn't all about me but this gives you
kind of a some background of where I
come from kind of my view on the space
and why I think it is a practical
application um of a lot of different
Technologies and really a lot of luck
that we have here what we have here in
the United States um especially from the
FCC is something very special that
nobody else in the world has um and
we've got very lucky here so I'm going
to go through that in some detail here
uh so as I mentioned here um a lot of
practical experience in the traditional
Telecom industry uh most of that I
earned the hard way at Verizon Wireless
uh I deployed their Cloud platform I did
core data services engineering which is
a fancy way of saying I did a lot of
router work on Cisco and Juniper
switches and help turn up cell sites and
vpns lpls switches all that kind of
stuff um spent a lot of time there
enjoyed my time there in the Telecom
industry um but I did think that it
could be done a lot
better uh in my free time it's good to
say I volunteer for uh 4M I'm part of
forward 48 here in Milwaukee uh I work a
lot with cybercity students across
Wisconsin volunteer time to tell them
about the industry how to get them
started with their first job AR arguably
their hardest uh job to get in the cyber
security industry uh and I also advise
uh several startups like uh relay and
Galactic slice uh here in
Milwaukee uh I spend a lot of time too
as a community of angelist so I do a lot
of interviews podcast episodes talking
about the traditional Telecom industry
talking about how it's different then I
think a lot of people kind of visualize
it so some people have some background
maybe they've heard of helium before um
or heard of some of these networks so I
try to really break it down into
something that's very practical into
what exactly how these work how do you
put up a cellular radio on a tower how
do you get a tower um how does this
process work in the traditional industry
and kind of what we're trying to do now
um a lot of the popular term is
decentralized infrastructure
decentralized networks um there's still
a lot of debate in this space what
exactly to call this um Dy is most
popular term or decentralized Wireless
um dpin which is decentralized physical
um internet networks has come out and
then dpu decentralized proof of useful
work so we don't have a consensus yet
just because there's been an explosion
of different approaches um to how do we
create um kind of redundant um useful uh
communication Services uh that anyone be
a part of and deploy but are still
resilient still secure um or at least as
secure as what we have
today uh so I mean here's some big
numbers basically saying you know it's a
huge industry the wireless industry the
Telecom industry the cellular industry
uh it provides a lot of jobs um everyone
here has a cell phone everyone probably
wishes they paid less for it um and
that's kind of the dream here uh that's
the end goal is that we are trying to
bring down the costs of wireless service
uh dramatically from what it is today um
now what what do I mean by that hard
numbers what I mean is that um I think
that in three five or 10 years um the
the goal and the success of all these
different um approaches to this problem
of getting affordable cellular service
um sort of affordable home internet
service is that we should have unlimited
data Unlimited phone calls unlimited
text messages for a cost of $5 a month
um that is possible with this approach
um and that provides I think a enough
profit incentive for everybody in this
ecosystem which is pretty dramatic and
that is something that definitely the
Verizon the AT&T's of the world do not
want to see um they protested quite a
bit to the FCC uh allowing them to uh to
even have the possibility of something
like this to be created
um not a big fan of of competing so um
that's really my frustration so um and
one reason why I left the Telecom
industry is I just thought you know how
come you know from the inside we get
more equipment that comes in with higher
capacities the cost of back call service
internet service continually goes down
from the provider point of view a lot of
those cost savings aren't passed on um
speeds increase but costs don't go down
um average cost of a cell phone plan 113
bucks most people are somewhere you know
50 to 100 bucks um that I know uh can be
higher can be of course lower too uh
there there's plenty of lowcost networks
that are out there and uh can give you
quite a bit uh lower cost service but
arguably far lower quality as
well uh we've seen some approaches here
so we saw loon come in from Google oh
all right gotcha uh so we saw loon come
in from uh with another approach I said
well we're going to put up a lot of uh
atmospheric balloons and that's going to
be our solution to providing lowcost
cellular service now uh that's going to
come back here towards the end of the
talk because u a lot of those guys came
back but uh that approach ultimately
failed because carriers did not want
anything to do with that and would not
work with them uh we have starlink which
I would argue is uh probably the the
most successful most disruptive kind of
entry into this ecosystem of providing
coverage anywhere at an affordable rate
I wouldn't quite call it affordable
today but you can just pop one up as
long as you're in a covered Zone and get
service that is hugely disruptive makes
it a much more competitive industry uh
so you might be wondering you know how
are we allowed to do this why are you
know why is this how is this even
possible well it's a big thanks to the
FCC it's really due to two main things
and the first thing that came in was
cbrs um citizens ban radio spectrum and
this was really just given us from uh
really from the Navy but basically they
said we're going to bring up the
Spectrum and allow anyone who Falls
rules to use it uh and the rules are
very straightforward um to go ahead and
register with the FCC and allow to use
the Spectrum and they have they've
broken up into different bands they have
the general access band and Priority
Access band but in general they made it
very very easy to get a hold of cellular
spectrum that works on any recent
Android phone any um iPhone that's
iPhone 8 or newer so it really opened up
and said wow okay we fixed uh the
Spectrum problem we have bands that we
can use and go ahead and utilize those
bands to have saor service um
specifically it's ban 48 um for cbrs um
in the LT 4G world and then n48 um in
the 5G world the last part of that was
um o what's called otard installation
rules and this was the FCC saying that
your landlord your HOA your state City
local government cannot come in and say
you are not allowed to put up Broadband
um so this has been reaffirmed in sever
court cases saying that as long as
you're following building codes safety
codes that are local to you um you can
pass an inspection um they can't just
say we don't like it and you can't build
there um um cities hated this HOAs hated
it but um you're allowed to do this
today this those really two things
brought out some huge barriers to
allowing these prodcts even be possible
uh nowhere else in the world do we have
such strong Protections in place to not
only install Broadband infrastructure
with a fairly loose definition but
nowhere else do we have the ability to
actually utilize free spectrum that
commodity cell phones can use so that
without that none of this would be
possible it it would still be a dream uh
the rest of the world is watching this
several countries said they're looking
implementing something like this um but
none of them are it's only the United
States so what is cbrs um so this this
is fairly recent it's only started in
January of 2020 and the FCC said we're
going to give you 150 MHz and that's in
my opinion a for the naral brand but
it's useful um a 3.5 GHz band and saying
as long as it's cellular 4G 5G 6G
forever um we're going to allow you to
get Spectrum licenses that in the past
would have cost billions to acquire so
this really kind of commoditized the
ability for you to use uh s service now
this is well known in like the wireless
ISP industry and isps use this um there
are isps here in Wisconsin like ethoplex
um that that uses CBR service so it's
well known well um you know kind of they
have a lot of experience in this
territory so um you know it's not
anything you know that new what's very
new is just the the deregulation and the
allowing anyone who follows rules to
utilize
it um so oard which stands for over
theair reception devices um so if you're
a property owner if you have um a tenant
who has the right to you know use a
balcony um they can put up antennas they
can put up radios um again you can't
just put anything up and you can't just
you know put it on with zip ties it's
got to
um a safe and Professional
installation uh but you're able to put
that up um so those have really allowed
you to put this up a lot of people put
them up in their homes um those aren't
tremendously useful to building a
network but it's a good start uh and
this has really kind of reinforced the
ability for these networks to be a thing
without this strong legal protection um
I think there'd be a lot uh it'd be a
lot difficult for them to grow as fast
as they
have so uh the model today uh so it's
fairly straightforward um right now and
I you know I give a lot of kudos to the
different projects that are in the space
making it kind of very very simple
because you know working in Telecom
industry there are thousands of tweaks
that you can make to have a a highly
efficient Network and they kind of take
on all that cost of optimization and
building a network so users contributors
deployers uh so I work with a very large
deployer called hexon Wireless um you
know we raid we raised funding to be
able to buy this equipment on behalf of
investors and deploy it throughout the
country um including here in Milwaukee
and put this up and get it installed we
work with various projects and I'm going
to go over some of those projects uh a
little later on here but those projects
basically they work with these different
manufacturers to say you're the
equipment that we want to use we're
going to go ahead and the mobile Corp
we're going to maintain it for you and
we're going to make it as simple as
possible um for you to give it power um
give it back haul interet and we're also
um going to reward you and that's where
this blockchain component comes in now
not all of them are doing that there are
um some new projects out there that are
using a hybrid approach or an all cach
approach to where um that's uh you don't
have to just take tokens and go to an
exchange and exchange them for US
dollars or ethereum or any other token
that you like um uh so that that is
rapidly uh moving and evolving as well
but they basically have the respons
possibility of running the network uh
together and that's the the reason why
they call it decentralized which I kind
of argue with um is that um anyone can
be a part of it anyone can buy these
radios I'm going to have some links up
to some of these projects later on you
can go there right now you can spend
1,500 bucks and buy a radio kit and put
it up um get it approved to um Smith
registration to the FCC to get it um
online and and transmitting which
usually takes anywhere from 1 to 3 days
and you'll start earning these tokens
uh that are coming out in the current
projects today there are other projects
that are planned to pay cash in the near
future uh and earning from this and uh
not to get into too much detail about
how they earn but the quality of the
install matters uh mainly how high it is
is a big factor so if you better get a
access to a 200 foot Tower you're going
to earn much much more than somebody
putting it um on their roof and going
just above the roof line um in a
residential area you'll still earn
something but it won't be the same and
what you earn is what these projects
kind of take care of um and usually do
it through you know in the industry they
call it white papers of how much you
earn and these are the criteria and that
changes and evolves over time um a lot
of them have user working groups where
they say this is what we're planning to
implement can we get feedback from the
community and we're going to have some
type of community vote um and how that
is that that varies from Project to
project but there's just some feedback
in a back and forth on what they're
doing so it's not completely new there's
no shock now not not every project has
been that friendly um uh you if if you
saw me last year I was talking here a
lot about pollen as one of these
projects and um that they've they
drastically changed their approach here
and said um we're not we're no longer
going to honor what we originally did
we're really worried about this uh about
SEC going after us we're going to pull
out and change everything um a rug pull
is what most people called it um
regardless of that though there has been
increasingly uh a lot of money being
poured into the space um typically
between 10 and 20 million from we see
investors or new projects coming in
saying hey we're going to we have this
much in our war chest to deploy these
networks so um even in the current
market they are growing quite quickly um
I can say just on my knowledge over
20,000 of these radios uh were purchased
last year and that's probably on the low
end and I think this year it's probably
going to be around 40 to 50,000 cbrs
radios um and buy cells which happens to
be a a local company here in Wisconsin
they're headquartered um over in Madison
Wisconsin um produces uh the majority of
radios used in these projects they're
not the only one uh but they're the
largest by far and uh um also commonly
used by a lot of Wireless isps um
manufacturers love these projects
absolutely love it they make a lot of
money selling these kits um all-in-one
kits where you have the antenna and the
radio Allin one unit very simple to
install and then more advanced higher
powerered kits where you have separate
uh you have separate antennas like what
you have in the bottom here the bottom
right um to where you've got an outdoor
enclosure um you've got a much larger
radio and high higher powered
antennas so how do you earn today so
obviously these networks are fairly new
I don't think anybody here is using any
of them um how do they get paid
so the mechanism that they use is kind
of similar to other mechanisms um in in
you know other parts of uh I'll say the
the Sea of blockchain um the use
something called the proof of coverage
so basically when you go and submit you
have to register your radio and say I
have pictures to prove I actually
installed it here and this way um that
they then forward on and and uh forward
on the FCC in order to get a license
Grant um through something called the
SAS system the Spectrum access system
they make it very very easy to do they
have
walkthroughs um so I give them a lot of
credit there for drastically simplifying
the process of getting a radio up and
earning um so while there are users of
these NW works it's arguably in the
hundreds Nationwide very very low right
now it's where you bring your radios up
you get approved to transmit begins
earning based on um the coverage that
they simulate from how it's installed um
they're rapidly moving to a model next
to where that coverage is validated and
by validating that means that there's
some type of device typically a
dedicated Hardware device and that
device um proves that that radio is not
only up and running but it can actually
talk to it and that's how that's how the
earnings work today so the goal which is
what they're all working towards is that
obviously you're going to have a lot of
users on it um thousands of customers um
paying in monthly so one of these
projects helium 5G which is just the
cellular component of helium um they
sold about 200 esims last month so they
do paying customers they're paying about
a dollar a gig or very very high rate
but they're early adopters um they've
also found several issues that they're
fixing um so it's it's very very early
um in this movement but um there there's
a lot of investment in this space and
obviously deployers like uh the team
that I worked with that are putting
these radios up um all across the
country uh a lot of these you know I'll
call them deployers are independent
meaning they may have investors they
purchase radios and they go to people
who own high value locations so these
are typically Towers um very high
rooftops um you know here it'd be like
the US Bank building uh was an excellent
location to put these radios up if if
it's profitable with how much that you
make um and work out these agreements so
basically use simulation tools so here
I'm using um a free simulation tool
anybody can use um this is provided by
ubiquity for mapping the coverage um
that you would get at a at a tower
that's out there um you can pay for
tools as well there's plenty of
expensive tools in the industry um the
one that I prefer to use the most is
called Google SAS or Google Spectrum
access system um they have a very very
good uh simulations in in my opinion for
mapping this out telling them this is
what I think it will cover this is what
I think it will earn maybe sandbag that
10% and come up with an agreement you
can pay in cash um Revenue Shares are
are very
common uh so I mention here like there's
no shortage of investment here and this
is all very recent from this year um
escape velocity is probably the most
well-known uh Fund in this space they've
raised a $25 million fund and they only
fund these types of projects um andr
which started out as a traditional ISP
um they just finished their series a in
February raising 15 million and then
really Wireless um so they are um one of
the projects that uh that just kind of
entered the space not a lot of
information about them yet but they
closed an $18 million seed run so um
regardless of the market there's a lot
of money going into the space um and one
of the reasons why I I continue to have
confidence that in the next three five
10 years um this is couldn't get some
significant uh Traction in the
market with that said there is no
shortage of problems that they've had in
drama uh in this space so here's uh
Forbes article talking about how um a
lot of
insiders um SL Executives at Helium and
by helium the the older the Laura I
Network um made a lot of money uh
basically didn't disclose their Holdings
in the network uh I think that's
absolutely true um they they should have
disclosed more of the Holdings that they
had um and been more transparent about
that um poen mobile which I mentioned
and poen mobile was a big partner that I
worked with uh last year um uh did what
you know most would call a rug pole they
said we're getting out of all the tokens
all the stuff that we issued to you that
had market value we're going to cap that
value um we're going to destroy the
market for those tokens we were giving
out um so that angered quite a few quite
a few people um a lot of people lost um
a lot of money um millions in in several
cases um for trusting and believing that
they were going to be um a leader in the
space so there there's lots of risk here
I don't want to downplay how this is a a
new Emerging
Market um I've got a chart here helium
earnings um just destroyed um that's
their their main token they have
multiple tokens for different projects
one for iot one for one for 5G called
mobile but I mean as an asset class it's
it's it's just absolutely uh horrible um
trying to get get an Roi out here um and
various other issues that we've had here
um well the networks here xnet currently
has no liquidity which means even if you
earn these tokens uh you can't sell them
no one's going to buy them anywhere uh
they have no value so um and that's not
um and that is part of their fault there
should be more demand for it but um
that's a that's a big problem that no
one's trading their token um that the
liquidity is so low it can just dry
up um yeah so what have I been kind of
doing for the past year how did I get
these radios up so uh I worked with
hexon wirless is a vpu deployment there
and what we did is really focused on
areas in the United States that we think
that this type of model would have a lot
of traction so um we bought our antennas
from KP performance um they have great
quality antennas again used by a lot of
isps today um wispa has um a public
database of all the members so wispa is
the Wireless ISP Association so most
serious Wireless isps are a member um we
also went to um their National events
that they have including the recent
Broadband Summit they had here in
Milwaukee and went there and went look
for who are the wireless IPS we could
work with because it's a very very
complimentary relationship working with
wireless isps they have good quality
locations they already have customers
they're already profitable they have
rooftops um they also have power
and uh and a lot of back hall/ interet
so uh they're very easy to work with so
in a shout out here I do a lot of work
with
ethoplex um here in southeastern
Wisconsin uh We've deployed uh many many
radios throughout the Milwaukee area and
we plans to deploy a lot more um on top
of that andrina I mentioned earlier just
raised um you know quite a bit of money
have decided that they're going to enter
the Milwaukee market and deploy these
radios as well so um it's still a very
hot um kind of area uh to get into now
you can go to Freedom fi and buy these
radios yourselves so here's a kit for
2500 um if you want to buy a brand new
kit um you can find used ones on eBay as
well for miners
who um you know want to cash out or are
done with the project um there aren't a
lot of them but you typically see one or
two a week um and go ahead and buy it um
there are simulators available at the
current market rate um of these tokens
that'll give you an Roi so you can kind
of say okay if I buy this radio and I
pay this
and I I generate you know I estimate I'm
going to generate around this many this
many tokens at this value um this is how
quickly I will pay off the equipment and
start being profitable and that's what
um you know a lot of hobbyists
enthusiasts to it's also what a lot of
large deployers do um and that's what I
did as
well now um I did a lot of work here um
working at hexagon Wireless uh we put
out thought pieces talking about how
it's more efficient um how we can have
Dr ially lower costs um I put up there a
simulation this from Google SAS of what
it looks like so we have um four radios
on top of the
embassador um kind of Hotel just down
the street here and what that coverage
looks like in general um you
know what's
that oh that's okay there heard a thir a
question there but uh um that's you know
quite a bit of coverage for I I'd argue
a you know a pretty good um install
versus going on like rooftops um so I
got a picture there this is uh me and
Morgan who uh came in from Rise
broadband and join the team that was our
first test site uh that's over on top of
the uh uh prin building in Third Ward um
we've got two 430s uh those are buy CES
430s uh pointed off and I don't I think
that's the NBC 27 uh traffic camera up
there and then the US Bank building in
the background um so we were there last
summer putting that that up um getting
those radios out there um and that was
our test site it went very very well
yes yeah so how much you make a mut uh
that depends on the project and you can
also flash them back and forth uh so
these are the these are smaller
all-in-one
units um
on on a helium
today um so method of earning is called
um coverage or coverage points you'd
earn about 20,000 per radio today again
as more come online that's going to uh
redu as you're competing with everybody
else uh and those have a market rate
today of
0.003 cents per token so you're looking
at about six bucks per radio today
um six months per $6 today if you sold
them immediately um and then per month
you know then obviously it starts adding
up you can start C what you have for the
year but be aware that over time you're
going to earn you know um you know 50
less every
day uh 20,000 would be my estimate for
this model deployed
today
yeah 20,000 points a day yeah yep yep
and um helium they've got some Roi
calculators you can use I would Al I
would be very um careful with those
calculators some of them are very
aggressive I would definitely sandbag
those numbers um and double check what
they call the market rate I would look
at the uh live trading markets to see
what those are trading at before I say
this um I've seen some pretty crazy
estimates um out there um and I and
because we're working with a partner
here ethoplex um you know it's very very
important that we give them accurate
estimates otherwise there's no the
partnership falls apart they got they
have to plan on how much they're going
to make because they have hard costs as
well there's cost for their installers
to install these radios there's cost
also back haul um and obviously
electricity they aren't major costs but
they have to factor that in um into this
uh plan here so um and I also did some
um work at events kind of talking with
isps Across the Nation um about how this
works um I'll say you know pretty
frankly today A lot of people are scared
of this type of uh movement SL
technology um it's kind of hard to
there's a lot of early Believers uh
right now I guess I could put myself in
that campus saying it's it's definitely
possible the technology Works um the
main thing to pull it off is really just
customer adoption um and getting down to
a reasonable cost Point uh which I
believe is $5 a month for unlimited
everything unlimited data limited calls
limited text messages Etc limited home
internet um the speeds that these radios
can provide are not going to be the same
speeds that you're going to get from
Verizon AT&T so being realistic here
these radios go for can only transmit at
one watt you're going to up against
Verizon radios they're 40 Watts 80 Watts
significantly more powerful
significantly more range however you're
still going to get 70 Megs down and 40
megas up on these radios that's not bad
now when they're Fally utilized if you
got these ones maxed out at about 64
people SL users SL cellones um obviously
that's going to go down and be shared
between all those users it will be
slower it will have less range but you
know these radios here uh cover uh
several blocks East all the way down to
the water front then go West Through The
Interchange um and these are um uh you
know not the biggest ones we have we
have some bigger radios in this with
dedicated antennas that can go much
farther than that the most range that
I've seen from some of our Towers closer
to close to I'd say around 200 feet high
um those are those I think I've seen
them go as far as 15 miles so they offer
pretty good range out there in rural
[Music]
areas all right so where we at today so
the major players uh that you need that
that keep an eye on so helium 5G is
probably the most well- won um a lot of
people may have heard of helium or known
them through the iot or lauralan or
miners um that's not um in my opinion
those are extremely unprofitable and
they don't um they have yet to show that
there's any type of traction in that
space um famously their network of a
million nodes only 40% of them are
online and they're only making like
8,000 a month um I think that'll get
better but that is extremely poor
Revenue um and performance for a network
of that size and the amount of money
that was invested um from my prior
experience in the Telecom industry
working in the cellular industry uh I
believe that that helium 5G is a much
better approach that scales a lot better
it's a lot higher capacity um they have
been you I think very blunt in a lot of
their recent Community calls saying that
they want to be an MBO so they want to
be the Boost the Cricut of the space um
that's the only way they can go forward
so right now um they can't purchase them
today they're in the middle of uh of
migration project but um they do offer
service today it's $20 for 20 gigs and
you also roam on a T-mobile if you're in
an area where the radios uh don't cover
that area so um but they have plans to
get drastically bigger uh so right now
you're looking at about 8,000 radios my
estimate about 20,000 between all the
projects not just helium were sold last
year um I know that for this year
they're they're much more aggressive and
it's closer the 40 or 50,000 cbrs radios
uh makes the manufacturers very very
happy um I don't think that's nearly
enough radios to get the coverage that
they need um I think it'd be closer to
you know maybe 120 150,000 radios maybe
higher um and also depends a lot on how
how well they're installed as well but
um the the they are the leader in the
space they have more radios than anybody
else uh they move more uh M anybody else
in there they're The Originals helium
was really the first experiment that
really proved that this could be
possible at a large scale so um I give
them a lot of credit uh for what they
did and and how they grew this network
um and and really creat it's where we
are at today we wouldn't be here without
them uh with that said lately in my
opinion you know they've had to really
um s learn from the other entrance in
this area
so um they've had to learn from their
competitors how to keep on innovating
it's just
they they originally came in here with a
focus on lauran but this focus on 5G um
is continuing to evolve and catch up to
where the competitors are at um to be
you know kind of transparent most of the
fleet that I currently manage is is on
helium 5G or is being flashed to their
Network just because you can have one
pretty much anywhere and start earning
uh which that flexibility is is pretty
useful um with that said I do not think
they're the most profitable Network
today that I put my radio is on it it
depends where you're
at that kind of brings me to the next
kind of new here called xnet um so X
net. company um there's a couple xets
out there got to make sure you get X
net. company um in this space so they
have they have a very different approach
um and strategy they're not trying to
become their own Cricket or
boost what they're trying to do is
simply say well we've identified high
value areas of the country that do not
have good wireless coverage in our
opinion and we believe that um through
giving the right types of rewards out in
these what they call their clusters that
they sell out that um their network will
be much more valuable they've announced
publicly that this year they plan to
sell 10 of these clusters or come to an
agreement to where the data is sold from
these clusters um to different carriers
um so they recently just opened up
Chicago it's their most recent one
currently they have no coverage in
Wisconsin so that means if you buy one
and you deploy it here um in Wisconsin
son today you're not going to earn
anything it have to come up you have to
move it to Chicago San Francisco Houston
Dallas uh New York um as their main
focus but they've been very aggressive
um their team has a lot as opposed to
helium who are people who had no
industry background or experience um for
majority of them some of them did have
uh some from their from an acquisition
they did gain some Wireless ISP
experience but um they have a lot of
former googlers people from uh different
cellular companies around the world so a
lot of Industry expertise kind of a
different tweak on the formula here they
just want to offload traffic and get
paid for that um they have said that
they believe they can get $1 you know a
gig is not a crazy amount for them to
get for offload traffic from a major
carrier they've been very koi about
saying you know exactly who these
networks will be with besides big name
you already know but um in the Clusters
where they are it's very profitable to
put them in you'll you're you're often
going to earn I'd say at least 75% more
in terms of revenue from deploying in
their coverage areas uh with that said
well you can earn more uh from what
they're offering they have a very very
small Network um they have at any time
about 50 radios up and 50 is pretty
small anyone could put up a network of
50 radios uh pretty quickly with the
right funding um obviously this this is
nowhere near what helium has at
8,000 uh but they're they're probably
I'd say the next big player in space um
really is new one that came in so
they're uh they're pretty interesting um
there's not a lot of details on their
project but I wanted to mention them as
kind of the next big player in the space
there's a lot of information we seeing
coming soon or join our weight list um
their equipment is probably the most
even though it's the same byes equipment
that the other projects use they've
marked it up higher than the other
projects they do not support flashing
into their projects so you have to buy
their equipment even though it's the
exact same radio um from another project
with a different firmware they spray
paint it um so it looks cool um but not
much past that uh uh but they are you
know they they have a track record of
success in other Industries in terms of
doing price comparisons so on their
website they allow you to stack rank
every single cellular service provider
um in the United States and their idea
is that hey we're going to have all
these different options that are out
there and we're going to also put up our
own network as well so well they're
being very koi about exactly how this
would work and I would argue paying you
know $7 for one gig of data is an
extremely insane insanely high price um
and maybe it's good for early adapters
but um you know they they've got a lot
to figure out as well to scale up and
get these prices uh down where they need
to be um if I were to guess and I I have
no inside knowledge here I think that
they're doing a hybrid approach of the
last two um they're going to say well
there's areas that we focus on and we we
sell the service that we have but also
work with external providers so kind of
a blend of the other ones they're not
strictly trying to be their own virtual
carrier and they're not strictly trying
to just sell their coverage they're
doing a blend of the two so it's another
approach I like that there's more
competition in the industry will be
successful um you know hopefully um I
think there's a chance that all these
approaches could work and all of them
could also fail as well um but it is
good to see someone trying out you know
a very I would argue very consumer
focused um approach to this industry I I
would argue the biggest issue we have
right now are there are too many
enthusiasts who like me came from the
industry think this is cool that you can
put up your own radio and use it at your
house or give it to a friend with a QR
code they can jump on your cellular
network and it just it just works it's
it's just using technology as designed
um getting out of that kind of
Enthusiast space getting into mainstream
adoption um how many years will that
take my guess it be five to 10 but we'll
have to see
here um so what if you want to do this
today um outside of having
$2,500 um or you you know buy it for
maybe let's say 700 on eBay buy a used
kit that someone uh someone is giving up
so uh I would argue the best locations
tend to be 60 ft um on a tower with
power and internet um if you can't get
that you can of course put up in your
home there's no rules against that um
you're just going to you in general
you're going to earn less long term so
make sure you factor that into your
calculations
probably take like 40 to 60% out of what
of what these calculators have in um if
it's not your house you need to convince
them to let you install the equipment I
would highly highly recommend that you
do a REV share and find someone who's
into this and not you know doesn't go
running away when you say blockchain or
crypto which is hard um especially in
this environment that we have today you
can pay them cash R of course but um
cash rent um you know has UPS is a nice
downside has nice predictable agreement
um but but on the on the flip side um it
removes it removes any type of upside
for whoever you're paying so if this
does take off if you pick a project that
happen to does do very well um and
become profitable they lose that um well
you get all the upside um if if they
believe it has a future so um in general
I recommend find a rep share find
somebody else who's open to this um and
going on this journey with
you
um now here's some some pictures that I
took um just some coverage areas here so
I've got here in the background we've
got xnet um and the Reas so explain kind
of a high level how their model Works um
and I'll just be transparent I plan to
deploy quite a few radios in these areas
uh so they have all this areas covered
it's got kind of a nice Haze to it the
gold ones are basically think of like a
3X earnings multiplier they said that
coverage there from all the carriers
that are out there today is so bad that
we will pay you three times the normal
rate to get your radios up there um the
silver is about double and then the
general is General um kind of to kind of
uh going to be just our Baseline rate so
they pay out a little differently in
helium um an average radio is going to
pay um 2,000 x net um every two weeks so
about 4,000 a month um and those uh when
they were trading uh go for about 5
cents each so you earn earn quite a bit
more with
xnet uh that's out there I've got helium
up there um somewhere from the last map
I put up and then um in the bottom with
the red kind of hexagons that are there
uh that is uh pollen which I previously
deployed to all those radios that are up
there are all mine um I was literally
two days ago flashing a bunch of those
radios um over to helium um just because
we the our partner there ethoplex just
we earn a lot more with that uh moving
over to the helium Network um which is
nice we have the ability to do that and
kind of save that investment um but it
is high risk and it is a bit
speculative uh so what is you know kind
of the the goal of what why are we all
doing this why am I doing this um as I
mentioned in the beginning um I believe
we can um it's going to take time it's
going to take a lot of work but we're
going to drastically bring down the cost
of Wireless connectivity um everywhere
including rural areas um I don't want to
compete with wireless isps um the
wireless isps that I work with we enable
them to to grow to White Label what we
do where they're interested and give
them another additional Revenue stream
that doesn't compete with what they have
today um I I think it makes a lot of
sense because these from their point of
view um if you're buying this radio and
putting it up they're not paying you for
the spectrum that you're using um that's
freely available um they're not paying
you for the bandwidth that's available
and they require a certain speed um so
from their point of view I think it's
incredibly uh affordable and efficient
and that's why they can bring down the
costs um I think the goal is is $5 $5 um
it's going to be it's going to take a
while to get there it's going to take
years um and I this competition in my
opinion is is going to end up being good
for everyone whether they're a part of
this or not it will make the space uh
more competitive at a minimum on the
kind of what they call virtual mbno or
virtual Network operator space uh with
the Crickets and boost of the world I
hope that it's going to make the
high-end more competitive as well with
AT&T Verizon T-Mobile but um we'll we'll
see what happens here we we're comparing
you know 40 WT radios get 1 watt radios
so it's quite a different comparison in
terms of capabilities and speeds at
least today um 5G radios have just come
out that are compatible with these
projects those are drastically higher
speeds um that's more of a gig what what
you can see even with one watt uh we'll
see if that pans out but that's very
exciting as well as we go to 5G and of
course 6G eventually later on um that's
out there and anyone could buy one
anyone can put them up um and earn from
them so uh what's going to happen in the
next year or two um in my opinion kind
of the big changes and this has already
been announced um by the projects in the
spaces license Spectrum so they want to
get rid of the handcuffs that they kind
of have using freely available um cbrs
Spectrum well it's great that it's
affordable um it can get congested very
very quickly and um most of the major
carriers have bought what they call
Priority Access priority means that they
can go ahead and say well I'm going to
use cbrs as well but because I paid
extra for a priority license even though
it's generally available I have a higher
priority than you and I can knock you
out and you can no longer transmit and
use that Spectrum um so that's a big
risk for the space it hasn't been an
issue uh yet but I can see it easily
being an issue over the next couple
years uh so I believe that xnet is going
to have licensed Spectrum really will of
license Spectrum I don't know about
helium uh they've been very koi about it
don't really want to address it uh more
interested space um I think this is a
fraction of the projects that we're
going to see um really just joined um I
know just from uh conversations that
I've had there's at least I'd say five
to seven others that are kind of waiting
to go public they're in stealth um who
want to get into offering this this
space um I hope that they're all
legitimate I hope that what happened
with Polland doesn't happen again and
they're not just trying to sell a lot of
radios um that they marked up um to
people and then kind of exit the space
um that that could happen again it is a
very risk there is you know a degree of
risk there um but it also kind of
reaffirms that this has a real path to
success in the industry um and the last
thing is large scale deployers um like
the team I'm I'm working with um taking
territory so we've kind of Stak the
Upper Midwest as kind of our home
Chicago Milwaukee Minneapolis that's our
background that's our home base if you
want to deploy that equipment here we're
going to be able to do that very quickly
and very easily um you've got longfi
down in Texas that they've stake that as
their territory work with them for any
Texas deployments resi in Florida um um
and then in it's a little crazy when
going talk about San Francisco San Diego
there's multiple uh units there in total
I'd estimate from companies that I know
there's about two dozen um large
companies in here in this space who have
uh bought a sizable number I'd say 100
200 or more in the space and are and are
um putting significant amount of capital
by significant I mean millions of into
the space so that gives um all of us
kind of some confidence that this has a
future and we're getting closer uh to
this Market um but uh yeah trying to
give an even version not be too bullish
on on what's going to happen here um so
uh big announcement that I have so uh me
and a couple buddies are I haven't
haven't given up so um well the startup
that we had didn't get get past our seed
round uh me and some friends in Chicago
have announced that we're going to be
buying an ISP um um it's not a not a
small transaction at all um we're
currently um very close to having that
close um so we I'll be able to release
some more details about the name of what
we're working on uh we already have
agreements with both helium and xnet to
deploy um hundreds of their radios uh
within Chicago it's a Chicago based
Wireless ISP um and uh we'd like to
continue to expand that uh throughout
really the Midwest so Minnesota
Wisconsin Michigan um Iowa Indiana are
all on our road map um so luckily we
have there's still plenty of funding in
this space and we're able to find
investors who have the confidence that
we have uh that this is going to be
successful um I will say that a lot of
world artist isps regardless if they do
this other stuff that I'm talking about
with helium extent the other projects
are still profitable um but uh we
believe that there's a a very high
chance that these will accelerate their
growth over the next uh uh next 3 to 10
years
all
right all right so uh with that I want
to leave plenty of uh time here for
questions um I've covered quite a bit I
don't hopefully I covered most of your
questions that you had but I'm sure that
there's more um this is a a very new
area of both I would say of blockchain
Technologies and the Telecom industry um
in my opinion it's never been exciting
as it is right now it's been in 30 years
um to allow people to actually put up
real structure that is real demand um
with that said it's still got a long way
to go but I'll uh hold here see if
anyone's got any questions here I'm sure
there's something I didn't cover yes yes
[Music]
sir uh you know it it was really a lucky
conflix of many things so first helium
with their iot Laura w technology they
were able to scale up very quickly that
that was extremely popular in 2020 2021
and then it crashed um that coming
around the same time as this the
regulation from the FCC was just kind of
a perfect influx of an opportunity to
evolved in the space so that that's why
it came to be in in my
opinion
[Music]
yeah
yeah yeah so most of them today um do
eims but um I have had uh tested
physical Sims as well and I have also
tested those physical Sims in like
traditional um uh CPE gear that you
would use on on customers so CP stands
for you know customer premise equipment
um it's what an ISP you know calls a
device that can take like a cular signal
and convert it into Wi-Fi and wired
internet they would use in your home um
so yes those are available right now
it's it's vered back to just eims yeah
and it sucks too because there are
there's currently no CP in the market
that uses an e they're still working on
it but it's
coming yeah was that a question or
no
yeah back
there
yeah
yeah uh that's to our partnership with
ethx so they already have an existing
leasing agreement with them uh to
provide uh Wireless ISP service from
their rooftop uh so we work with
ethoplex as kind of a subas tenant with
them to be able to put that equipment up
um is how it's structured um in effect
yes we are paying the hotel um to have
the right there um all of this is done
above board um even though there is a
blockchain component to it uh we have
legal council on staff and we have you
know written and reviewed agreements
that uh lawyers and attorneys have went
over and and we've both signed
yeah
yes yeah yeah uh so um if it is a helium
eim you're you're just going to go to
T-Mobile and it'll just keep working
like nothing happened um it doesn't
it'll still say helium but on the back
end it'll be T-Mobile and it'll be
invisible to you it'll just work um for
the other providers out there they don't
currently do that so it'll be a hard
drop off um it'll just have no service
yeah oh boy we got a couple here
yeah
[Music]
people
that
yeah y i I do so um what I do so I don't
have the the power to make you know
really directly outside of being a major
influencer because I deploy so many of
these radios um so I'm very active on
their Community calls and in our
discussions with them so most of the
people who run these projects um I've
met in person and talk with them about
their plans and their future strategy
and we're we're pretty well aligned
there um the path to getting there is is
still a bit hazy um uh a lot of the
projects when you talk about marketing
letting people know they kind of dump
that on you they're not going to take
out a Super Bowl ad and say come join
our Network yet hopefully one day um and
they may argue with me about that Vision
today because today they're charging a
dollar a gig and you know for 20 gigs
which is really expensive um for early
adopters um the only only real way to do
that today is to jump on um is become
part of their call so they have weekly
calls on Monday um that are public and
recorded and say this is what I think we
need to do I've got this group of people
here who are going to help us deploy
this many radios and I think we need to
get the cost down to this and
influential people in the community tend
to show up and care and give that type
of feedback obviously is is being a
major Pro uh major deployer in the space
um they take that in kind but um I
cannot tell them what to do um and
that's why I kind of hate the term now
decentralized because they they do hold
the control um with with all this
technology they have the developers um
they control the contracts they control
the payouts um regardless of you know
the nice the nice Vision that we all
have um so that that's really about it
it's really kind of an ask and an
alignment in kind of private meetings of
of of where they see it going one day um
but I have no legal recourse for they
change their mind um I mean anybody can
sue but I don't have anything hard you
know to kind of tell them what to do
when I say I own the network I own these
radios that's it I don't control what
they do with it I don't control their
pricing um I don't control the community
but um in different and at different
phases of growth they're they're more
and less receptive to that type of
feedback um so I mentioned paen pollen
didn't care what you thought they just
changed their mind I said fine doesn't
matter what you bought or how much money
you spent we're going to go this way and
we don't really care what you think um
helium still takes that but they're bit
tougher because they're like we've been
doing this a long time aren't anybody
else and we're like okay a whole three
years you
know um but outside of that um uh you
know they you know they get a little bit
quite a bit of respect too because they
without them none of this would have
been possible too um and then the New
Kids on the Block are very open to
feedback and new ideas and getting there
um however they have bosses and
investors as well who want to see a
healthy Roi so they don't necessarily
want to have cheap service right away
they want kind of ride the wave and
figure out how many people are going to
pay for you know uh $20 for 20 gigs okay
how many people are going to pay $5 for
20 they're kind of ride figure that out
um so yeah it's kind of a long-winded
answer to just say I don't have a whole
lot of say but I can be a a squeaky
wheel
yeah it it it it does feel like that I
would argue I would agree with you and
say it feels like the early days of
dialup Internet when they kind of
regulate to where any anybody has the
right to kind of be a a dialup provider
made it very very easy back in the day
um it feels like those early days where
we're figuring it out what works what
doesn't work um but the tech is there
the tech is solid it makes sense I I use
it at my house every day um in my
opinion it's more reliable than Wi-Fi
and it's preferable to Wi-Fi once you
get used to it um get used to just using
your phone and other devices with it and
obviously have um you have uh physical
SIM cards um as well um yeah it feels
like those early days of you know we're
not quite sure where this is going to go
and who the winner is going to be but
we're going to keep trying different
approaches until something sticks and
and luckily investors and BCS agree
too because they they got to pay
everybody to build
this um yeah
cool
yes
yeah yeah no you're you're absolutely
right um and we've had um here's what
I'm seeing right now and so far this
model is is head hasn't failed us
wherever you see a lot of people who are
into crypto and you put radios there
that's your best bet so San Francisco
Houston Miami little bit in Dallas um a
lot New York not a whole a little bit in
Chicago not a whole lot here in
Milwaukee there's some but it's it's few
and far between um outside of just being
a population graph you got to find those
people on the extreme end of the rist
curb who want to try something new um
and aren't scared of crypto or nfts or
blockchain or cellular service provided
by that and that's that's been the model
so far
um yeah that's where you're going to
have in my opinion the the best return
on your investment of a radio because it
will have the most utilization the only
way any of this is successful long term
is if we actually see people paying for
real service
yeah
[Music]
yep
that's where the subscribers will be
whether you build your radio there or
not yeah is what we're seeing so your
your radio being there or not has no
influence on subscribers is what we've
seen simply they are where they're at
and you need to go where they're at but
if you put up a radio they're not going
to come to you and if you don't put up a
radio they're not going to move so um
that's what we've seen and that's why
these Regional deployers have kind of
erased to these valuable areas and to
cover those first um past that once we
get to hopefully tens of thousands of
customers then this will go out into
less populated communities um I've had
quite a few discussions because I think
this the way this technology works right
now is kind of handicapping its growth
because we should be working more with
wireless isps and allow them to have
their own customers using these same
radios using the same technology but
also compatible with these networks as
well and why today you have to deploy
two separate networks which is a huge
waste but it's the only way to have it
done um uh I I think that's the future
um a lot of discussions about that will
that happen this year I doubt it but it
it will come yeah
yes
longfi yeah very familiar with
them uh they're they're a major deployer
yes
um yep I know coffeezilla I haven't met
him in person but
yeah yeah so there's two and there's two
long F out there I should be specific
there's long is kind of longfi the
deployer of these types of projects and
longfi kind of a protocol that's out
there
yeah
yeah yes
so there yeah um I did a a very short
list here what I think are the most
mature projects there are dozens of
other um especially in the um that's in
the lauran space there are dozens of
these projects there's there's chirp as
a big one there's crank um they're
similar um personally I don't spend any
time on any of them because I believe
there's no Revenue there um but they
could yeah I I don't know them as
well yeah uh so I look at it at the
feasibility of of this of these cellular
radios and the investment required and
the markup on that um a lot of those
projects are just marking up Raspberry
pies and Beagle boards um to crazy high
prices uh usually you know just under a
thousand um as far as you know is this a
flip is can you trust this project is it
not a scam um comes up all the time the
only thing that you have on helium is
relationships and trust and people I've
been working with for years um xnet is
fairly new I don't know them as well um
I have connections to a lot of googlers
but that's about it
um I would argue the best thing you can
do is look up the history of the people
leading the project in excruciating
detail where they worked who they worked
with what's their history if you can get
an interview with somebody who worked
with them is your best bet to figure out
what they're real if they have long-term
intentions or short-term if you get any
hint of any impropriety things um
harassment um investment dump um left on
bad terms I would run I I would have a
very high nose for all these projects
and and run if you have a hint of
anything you don't like
yeah oh yeah sorry I'm over here yeah so
I got to go
here but uh cool thank
[Applause]
you