hey caleb
welcome back to the podcast thanks for
joining me
hi to kyle thanks for having me um so
since we've last
uh last talked since you were last on
the podcast and you were one on one of
the earlier podcasts
i think i can't even remember which
episode it was like three or something
like that that's what i was thinking
yeah something like that
um and uh we had we had a ton of fun
talking i remember we talked about the
um the radio frequency identification
in the cars the rfid was it rfid
um um
yeah yeah yeah like uh breaking into uh
cars with uh
our uh sdr
and yeah it's basically just replay
attack where you record the
the code coming from the remote and then
replay it to open the car
yeah that was cool i really enjoyed
learning about all that stuff and and uh
that was a lot that was a lot of fun um
and since then
and so if if you haven't listened to
that episode i recommend going back to
it because uh it was
fascinating learning about all that and
since then you have uh you've
you've packed up and moved to georgia
and
uh we were talking a little bit about
that before we started recording i'm
like no no save it for the podcast let's
talk about it then so
i wanted to hear a little bit about uh
your decision to move to georgia
uh you know and uh you know why you'd
wanna
leave a snowy uh wintry wonderland
wisconsin and go down to georgia and how
that
and how that's played out for you
yeah well i actually will miss i won't
miss the cold but i will miss the snow i
actually do really
actually like the snow um in wisconsin
but
yeah you know a couple years ago we were
watching i was watching some old home
videos and i grew up kind of in kentucky
more and
okay more in the country um and you know
i remember moving from chicago down to
kentucky
as a kid and it was like going to heaven
i mean
it was and i just watched the video and
i was like you know what i couldn't give
my
my kids anything better like more
enjoyable than
uh what i had as a kid um
you know being in the woods and stuff uh
and it was that plus it was also
you know selfish for me too because you
know i i was kind of tired of being in
the city
um i i really like uh i i wanted more
mountains
and woods and um
you know that's just kind of more i
think
my kind of vibe um in addition to
there was you know seeing the um
polarization in the country and things
like that and also just
you know looking at the infrastructure
looking at the infrastructure that we
live in
um where it's uh with you know
electricity and the internet are so
critical that if it went out
um the city would be a very difficult
place to be
so that's kind of that's kind of uh the
main reasons for for moving gotcha so
you so you grew up
uh in in the you know oh in the country
yeah i mean a little bit of both we
moved back and more into the city when i
was probably like
14 or something like that so i was out
in the country for you know
maybe five years or a little more or
less something like that
cool and so so how's it been when we're
watching
uh as as we're recording this you're out
in your uh you you have a
uh horse stable on the on the property
and
uh you kind of got into you're doing it
from this space
to get a little bit of privacy and i
have you know a bunch of
kids trying to beg you for your
attention while we're doing the podcast
but it's also making for a pretty cool
unique podcast
uh so tell me about this uh this the
stable you got on the property
oh yeah um uh yeah it's just
in this this whole barn that we got um
but i'm trying to fix it up and kind of
make it into like a
a little bit more of a livable space
filling in the cracks and that kind of
stuff
um it's like a man cave you're gonna
have it be like your man cave
or something or i mean i probably will i
actually probably will use it as that
um a little bit um but also just uh
our house is only three bedroom and we
have uh a family member
living with us plus our kids so we don't
actually have any guest rooms
um and we like having people over and
stuff so
it's it's not the best guest room but um
i'm
trying to make it more comfy and stuff
uh uh just moved about 3000 pounds of
rocks in here
uh earlier today wow need to get a
little bit more
um uh it wasn't quite enough to fill the
whole floor but
um yeah i mean you know kind of glam
it'd be kind of like a glamping spot so
you know it won't be
super great but hopefully better than
camping
cool did you did you harvest the rocks
yourself did you go to the quarry
no no that would be a lot of work
cool well that's pretty cool it's
delivered it sounds like you're trying
to be a little bit more self-sustaining
it you know
you talk a little bit about you know if
the internet went down or whatever
like you you know being in the city it's
going to be a mess
right so it's part of it you know
you're kind of looking to be you know
more self-sufficient
yeah yeah that's definitely a lot of it
um
we actually back in 2019 we my family
and i did a a month-long glamping
or not glamping boondocking trip um
looking kind of looking partially
looking for a new home um
but it's kind of amazing when you
when you do like when you're boondocking
you're just out in the woods you know we
didn't have a camp or anything we were
tent camping and all that
but my wife my wife uh whitney she
wanted um
a hot shot having a nice warm shower was
a non-negotiable for her
so you know we had we had a little setup
where like i tap you know tap a creek
and that kind of stuff
and um use use a propane heater and i
got a little
gas generator so i could pump water you
know get hot shower
and you have something to wash your
hands with but anyway
it's kind of interesting like when you
when you really go more
longer term camping like that um
you kind of it was kind of like an
interesting learning experience because
i got to learn
okay what is like the basics i need like
for living
you know and like one of the things was
a water source
you know which i guess is probably an
obvious thing to everyone but
um you know it's just you know you can't
really
you know if i want to have a shower and
i want to be able to drink water and
that kind of stuff
that's some of the most basic stuff and
so we wanted to find a place where
you know if we needed to do that on our
own you know if the electricity goes out
um we can we can do that um we can get
water at least
you know i think that's an important
thing probably a good thing for people
to have in mind wherever they're at
really
like if you know obviously electricity
keeps running
or the water keeps getting pumped
usually i think without electricity but
at least for a period of time with the
water towers but at some point i figure
it would probably
run out um and
uh so yeah that's that was definitely
one thing and just
being able to grow our own food a little
bit you know we're wanting to do that um
so
just have some of the basics um
you know it's kind of amazing as a
culture we've we've become so efficient
and we outsource
more more and more and more stuff that
people have historically done
you know and living is very you know you
see some of those like settlers and
what they went through it's like living
is very difficult but so much of it's
been outsourced for us
but now we don't we we don't have hardly
any of these very
very basic living skills um like getting
water and getting food and
building shelter and so i'm wanting to
get more of that kind of stuff
and you know i want my kids to be able
to get a little bit more of that kind of
understanding and
you know that's the case yeah i think
survival skills are probably one of the
most important skills to have and it's
like you know most people don't know him
at all right and
yeah i think it's funny that you
mentioned that about the showers there's
um
uh there's a trip that my wife and i we
take with
a couple of our friends every year we
take a week and we go
we started three years ago we went to
the boundary waters three years ago then
we went to the apostle islands and then
we went to
last year we went to sylvania and uh so
we've just been doing
canoe kayak trips where we go out into
the wilderness for a week
and uh it's awesome that's cool i love
it we love it and uh but
one of the people so one of the guys on
that comes on the trip he said
i'm bringing you know a hot shower so we
can have hot showers but he was really
adamant about having his hot showers and
those hot showers are nice
especially when you're out there and
you're all grinding yeah
and uh and so he's got you know you have
the little uh the black
um shower bag and we did the same thing
where he heated up the water
and then we put it in the shower bag and
then you're just hanging up by a tree
limb and then you take a nice hot shower
and it's
uh it's a wonderful thing and then the
other thing is too it's like we we go
out
fishing the whole time and the fit you
catch so many fish and you
eat it and it's like the best food you
know it's so fresh
and amazing and uh i don't know it's
it's a lot of fun
and uh so yeah i mean last so last time
we went yeah we went to
uh sylvania in in july and i was like
um uh you know
sylvania is in the u.p in michigan it's
uh
it's like right over the border of
wisconsin uh
and it's like sort of like a mini
boundary waters so there's like
i don't know maybe eight like maybe more
but
i think we paddled like eight lakes and
uh you know you portage between them and
all that kind of stuff and uh i remember
saying like because you know we were in
the midst of of covet
and everything and um and i'm like if we
get out
and there's a civil war going on we're
just going to come right back in right
guys so now
that's like that's our plan right we're
just going to come back here
and we're going to hang out and uh so
um so there fortunately
uh there wasn't a civil war when we got
out uh
so um but you know and i think it's it's
interesting you're thinking about those
things like if the grid goes down
what do we do you know and uh right
it's uh you know what is what's your
plan b and you got a good one i got a
well we got a spot up north that's our
plan b but uh
you know that's uh it's uh it's a
interesting thing to be thinking about
well even if it's even if you're in the
city um when i was in milwaukee actually
uh me and one of my neighbors you know
we had plans for you know just in case
things
went down you know um i had a well
you know we could have manually gotten
water if the electricity went out or
used generator
to get water you know that kind of stuff
so you had a well here's a good thing to
think about
yeah it was like it was like a really
old house and it amazingly had
we were like one of the only wells
anywhere around like
uh yeah did you drink out of the oil or
did you you attached to the city water
we had both um i mean i i could drink
out of the well though he had to go and
get it tested
uh for bacteria and that kind of stuff
so it was drinkable
that's cool that's i i love that space
and i love you know you invited
uh me and some some other guys to do
this uh
we did some art art some painting at
your house and that was that was a blast
yeah
i had so much fun doing that and i'm not
much of an artist but
it was fun to just like uh you know just
paint some stuff and see what comes out
you know and uh yeah wound up painting
something
i like your it was like a yeah it was
like an
eye it was like a maze it was like a
compass it was like all these kind of
things combined in it and it was uh
it was a weird thing that just came out
of me that i wasn't really
consciously thinking about but um that
was that was a really unique experience
i
enjoyed that quite a bit yeah
yeah that was a good time it's fun to
just do art even if you're not super
good at it it's just i think it's
healthy you got to let that
heart have its play yeah absolutely and
have you been
uh you've still been painting you've
been doing a lot of painting
i was just telling a friend today
earlier today i don't i've not paid
like in probably a good nine months or
something we're gonna
i've got a friend coming over to visit
sometime soon we're like we're
definitely doing a painting party
you know so we will have a while but
we'll be safe
what you have been doing uh is the the
math art which i've been
i've been loving all of the fractal art
that you've been doing uh
you know using uh fractal equations in
python
and uh can you tell me a little bit
about how you started doing that and
what that process is like
yeah um yeah i mean i i was actually
thinking about how did i
get to doing this stuff the other day
and i was like okay i guess it started
in high school when i was like
when i first saw a graphing calculator
and i was like oh you can draw with math
that's super cool
um and uh you know you don't have to be
perfect at
drawing in a circle you can just have to
write the equation and it draws a circle
for you
on the old ti-85 calculators or whatever
those were
yeah yeah yeah the ti 83 89 that kind of
stuff
um yeah i remember just being fascinated
by that and you know
um and a couple years ago i actually
wrote a
my own graphing tool uh it's actually no
one no one knows about it's on github
um it's called truthy graph i think or
truthy gra it's either truthy graph
or truthy graphy it's um but it's a very
simple graphing program
it's just in your web browser so you can
you can even try it kyle um
yeah i'm definitely gonna check it out
and i'll put it in the show notes when i
find it so if anyone else wants to check
it out uh they should be in a link in
the show notes uh
so you can check yeah actually little uh
little cryptography thing the the
the the default equation that's graphed
on it is one of the
elliptic curve cryptography equations um
i think actually
like for oh yeah that's right i think
what at the time i was
i was doing some research into uh
elliptic uh
curve cryptography for work and i was
like
i was like okay how does this stuff work
and i kind of got into this bit of a
rabbit hole where
i'm looking into it and i'm like
graphing the equation
and i i think i wanted a prettier way to
graph it or something like that and so i
wrote this little
tool called truthy graph and like i said
it's on github uh
and it's like it's on github and it's
also hosted on github pages so
i think the url um is uh
truthygraph.github.io
if i remember right that's what
truthygraph.github.io
but anyway what what most graphs do
if you know if you're on a ti 89
calculator or whatever and you graph
you know x equals y squared
or sorry y equals x squared and you get
a parabolic shape
you know well what it's showing you
there is
where there is zero error there's the
left and right side of the equations are
precisely the same
right you know so y equals x squared
um it draws a line where you know at 0 0
y equals x squared the zero equals zero
squared
um you know and on up the graph but what
truthy graph does is it shows you a
gradient
and it shows you basically as the error
gets away
uh from graphs show you only where the
error in the equation and the size of
the equation is zero
truthy graph shows you it colors it for
you so you actually
see the error not just the black and
white of where it's true and fault
true you know it's showing you i don't
know if that makes sense but it
it ends up creating all these pretty
gradient gradients and that kind of
stuff
so in the case of y equals x squared
what would it
show would it show you where where
would it color in where why doesn't
equal x squared
yeah yeah yeah and basically the like
the line will be
uh brighter wherever they are equal but
it'll be dimmer and dimmer
the less true the less true the equation
is until it fades out
okay and you can kind of adjust you can
adjust how much of the air to show
basically
um anyway so i that that's kind of a
cool little
tool um but but
i kind of well then i got into like the
like you know the
sdr radio hacking stuff and so i was
learning about like waves and
more math for that kind of stuff and so
basically i pivoted
this art stuff was kind of pivoting from
the math
stuff i i played around with with the
radio stuff
into the visual space so i was basically
using a lot of like
similar some similar math
um that i was using for like hacking you
know
cars with radio waves and just showing
that same math
visually so some of it or some of the
same
basic kinds of maps especially like wave
i do a lot of waves i
i it's kind of funny like waves are this
like weird pet topic of mine my wife
said i should write a kids book about
uh waves but anyway do it you should
totally do it
um so what's your favorite wave
are you a sine wave um yeah i mean i
just generally like
yeah i like science waves they just show
up everywhere you know that's a lot of
what i use
uh um and yeah so you know with the art
stuff you're asking about that
um you know i basically paint with
these different equations so i'll i'll
show i'll generate
uh these natural patterns like uh what
you might see if you drop
you like the wave patterns you get
with ripples if you like drop a stone in
like a pond or something like that
you get these uh ripple patterns
and you can also get really beautiful
interference
wave interference patterns um if you
have more than one
kind of oscillator going on um
so you can so you know some some things
i might show you
like one of my one of my art things was
like if you
if you dropped six equally sized stones
in water the
wave interference pattern that it
creates would be um
exactly pretty much exactly what the
math is showing
um so it's kind of showing you like real
reality
oh wow it's actually that's it's like i
kind of i basically choose
i basically choose the colors but
all of the structure pretty much comes
from just
very direct mathematics reality
um and i call it i call it god's art
because
i'm outsourcing all of the structure you
know to the
the rules uh that that he wrote or
whatever
yeah wow that's that's fascinating so so
you're just taking
you know the the rules that govern the
universe and making a visual
representation of it yeah exactly
wow um and and so where where can people
find
uh the art that you've been making
because it's it's really cool it's uh
it's it's amazing
yeah thanks thanks kyle um yeah it's uh
my website is uh gods.art so
g-o-d-s dot a-r-t um
it's uh this new art domain name which i
think is kind of cool
but anyway um if you look there i
actually need to update my website again
um but yeah it's there and uh then it's
also got a link i
i've been i've been doing like
tapestries and pillows and
blankets and stuff yeah on this there's
this cool website actually probably a
lot of people would find this
interesting
um it's called society6 have you ever
heard of that i have not no
um it's like this cool website where if
you basically you can just upload any
arbitrary image and you can make all
these different products out of it
so you can make tapestries for example
um you can make custom pillows um
if i had them around i would show you uh
but um
uh yeah
you can make a bunch of stuff just by
uploading an image so i upload my my
stuff there
um so you can get you can get the
leggings made you can get like
pillowcases
it's really cool you shower shower
curtains it's actually kind of a cool
product idea
off service offering i think that'd be
cool if so if you're taking like some
equations that are
like i like the idea of like okay so you
got six rocks and you you they're the
same size and you throw them in water
what happens with the ripples if you can
tell that story i like the idea of you
know
because your wife was saying you should
write a book what if you made a book of
like
you know a story of like these things
happen and here's the visual
representation of it oh yeah
you know that'd be cool that'd be a cool
little kids book or coffee table book or
you know that that would be awesome i
love that that would be cool
that would be cool i hadn't thought
about putting them together actually
that's a good idea
yeah you can make a little story with it
and and
uh yeah that sounds uh i would
i would definitely uh get one for my
coffee table that's for sure
so yeah yeah yeah good point
there's there's that so um
yeah yeah the idea yeah cool um
so let's see here yeah we you know
we we talked about a little bit about
georgia a little bit about art um
is there anything else you want to talk
about or do you want to or should we
wrap this up
um let me think
i guess one thing that comes to mind um
is uh i just wanna maybe uh
this is i guess is a message of peace um
you know i i see so much polarization
right now
in uh the country and probably the world
too um
and the thing is though i i feel like
you have a lot of you got
media that tends to show the extremes
there's a selection bias going on
where the people who are the most
extreme are the ones that you
see and hear yeah but most people i
think are like a lot more
chill and people just need to listen to
each other respect each other
everyone everyone does bad stuff don't
you know you don't have to hate people
uh don't be a hypocrite you do bad stuff
too let's just love
everyone and be peaceful and stop with
the polarization
yeah i love i love that message and i
think uh social media has really
polarized this too you see like
what people pay attention to is the most
extreme thing so they get more attention
on youtube on facebook on twitter
um you know where people are and so
we have this distorted you know
vision of what reality is uh because of
these algorithms that are pro
like literally reprogramming us right so
yeah uh i guess that's another good
reason to disconnect and
uh you know it helps you sink into peace
right i think we're connected to these
devices that are literally reprogramming
our brains to
get glued to the outpage then you know
that's that's what we get you know and
so
it's uh yeah i you know i don't know how
how we undo that other than making a
conscious decision to put down the
devices and
uh enjoy nature right um so yeah i want
to talk to people in person too right
you know just that that's one thing
where you know there's some
there's i i've got a lot of friends who
like on facebook
uh where if i didn't know them in person
i would like
probably hate i would have hated them
you know like if i if i only knew them
based on their uh their online you know
uh exchanges you know but like in person
they're actually really pleasant
people so it's really strange it's
almost like it brings out the worst in
some people
yeah and it's easier to do it behind a
computer where you're typing you know
like if you're actually in front of
people yeah you don't want to be in it i
mean most people aren't [ __ ] you
know like
um but yeah there's something about uh
doing it from behind the keyboard or
behind the screen
and uh it's it's it's i guess yeah easy
it does bring out the worst in people
sometimes
i guess it almost uh you don't see them
as people or there's some kind of weird
thing where it's maybe maybe it's harder
to see people as people when you don't
see them
in person or something um you know like
drive like when you're driving in cars
people
have road rage because you you know
there's a person in there but like you
can't
you almost forget or something yeah
that's a good point yeah
yeah it's like they're they're just some
[ __ ] right
they're not a person
what are you doing yeah um
peace i love it so yeah
be kind to each other that's one of
that's one of my
intentions for the for the new year i
don't make new year's resolutions i
make intentions and one of my intentions
is to be kind to people
so i like that i'm trying to be kind
yep so man brother all right man well uh
thank you
uh so much caleb for uh taking the time
and uh everyone check out caleb's
artwork on uh
gods dot art is that right
yep you got it and uh yeah thanks kyle
for having me on it was fun fun time
and look for the coffee table art book
coming out in
2021 no i don't know but you never know
it'll come someday all right thanks
thanks caleb all right yeah thanks kyle
peace