winner
welcome welcome to the podcast thanks
for joining me thank you for having me
sorcerer what an honor and honestly so
good to actually hear it from your side
of the world and I just want to talk a
little bit about how we originally met
we met at Burning Man at 2019 and and we
were kind of emailing back and forth I
emailed you an outline this morning and
you responded with like a lot of
thoughtful things about what you wanted
to talk about and like all this is great
and I wanted to talk about how we met at
Burning Man and one of the things you
said was something about with my wizard
head I was like I'm gonna put the wizard
hat back on I'm gonna get the robe on
and because I'm not gonna be able to
wear it at any burns this year because
of coronavirus and everything so I'm
like you know what this will give me
some nostalgia and I can kind of
remember what it was like being at that
place and I gotta say you really
inspired me at Burning Man you know one
of the I think one of the things one of
my favorite things was being the
welcomers do you remember like welcoming
your patch your greeters badge I see you
got on there yes I got the I got the
badge yeah I did it yeah and but I
remembered your energy of you know
welcoming people and like this is their
first like you know interaction with
anyone with an inside the gates is the
greeters and the greeters you know in
the way that you welcome people was just
did the most energy and high energy and
I'm like oh I'm gonna I'm gonna do that
I'm gonna be like that you know and so I
tried to do that so you inspired me to
do that and it was so much fun and like
I remember giving I think that's
probably the most hugs I've ever given a
stranger in a day you know cuz you just
hug everyone and it's just it's so much
fun and I remember I was walking around
it was like I I was watching some son TJ
light deep playa all night and I was
like walking back I was walking to the
bathroom I was I just got done with the
bathroom which was a huge line it was a
whole thing
but anyways some late he's like hey
sorcerer you checked me in and like I
can she she talked about that experience
and it's like no I and III didn't
remember because I there's hundreds of
people I checked in right like you know
are greeted but but anyways and I just
remembered your your energy there and
also just like I'm seeing the the Playa
Fashion Show and everything just like
the energy that you had and carried with
you is really inspiring so thank you for
that well thank you for that and that
nice introduction because I'm gonna be
honest a lot of times when I think about
what I do at Burning Man like I'm not
one who usually starts like my own
activities I love volunteering and
participating so actually you wouldn't
like I admire it like you're like
admiration for like the things that I I
think just are so natural like greeting
people and like reciprocating the love
that they're already giving you I just
kind of tap into it because you are
actually someone who even if it was like
your first time like jumped in had a
workshop I've never even done that
before so just knowing that like in our
camp you created a space of like having
people come in and realizing like what
it means for them to like discover their
own magic and have them have like their
own experience of what it means to like
have a potion of like apple cider
vinegar or just like share with other
people like what is your animal that you
relate to and like having like little
chance like you created a space out of
nothingness and I think that is magical
because I'm somewhat yes that I think
creates within spaces but on thank you
for letting me know that you you
appreciate it because that makes me feel
really good
cool awesome and I think that um and I
really like that you really enjoyed the
the magic spell work and and I had I had
a lot of fun with I did that with a lot
of people at Burning Man you know like
when I meet them I'd say my name is
sorcery and then I'm you know the view
like sorcerer I'm like yeah I do magic
spells you want to do one and we do a
quick you know magic spell where we'd
say Playa Playa playa those me the magic
words and you'd envisioned you know the
person that you wanted to be in the
future anytime you wanted to do it right
and people really like that and I was
just like wow that was that was cool
that was powerful and like a lot of
people really enjoyed it you know
and I think about that now and I'm kind
of on this like trend of of
consciousness hacking and that's why I
wanted to have you on the podcast
because you wrote a book an amazing book
and I feel like in and and you I saw you
had a post on Facebook they hey I've
finished this book anyone want to read
I'm like yeah I want to read the book
and then someone else sent me a book and
then I found a book that my wife and I
started together last year so it was
like this whole like thing about you
know the universe like pointing to like
write a book and like now you know
people that are authors how cool is that
and so I feel it's like kind of getting
that's a consciousness hack in itself I
feel like getting these ideas out of
your head onto paper and a creative way
in Chang I realize that maybe what we're
really tapping into when we're talking
about this consciousness is recognizing
that energy just kind of comes to us and
at least with me my intuition sometimes
is not always in the right like
direction I don't always align with it
even though it helps me stay grounded
cuz like just knowing like when someone
sees you like you literally are just a
source of magic like I mean just looking
at like the the wide-brimmed like
pointed hat like even though I didn't
know you and we first like we're camp
mates cuz check their camps were camped
together it's realizing that like
combinated energy comes together and
like you literally have become a source
of like what it means during everything
with Kovach 19 at like finding magic
even in a world where were kept within
our own houses and like within our own
confined spaces so thank you for still
having that be like a manifesting of
like people being able to connect cool
thank you yeah I appreciate that and so
I wanted to talk a little bit about
writing a book like why did I write a
book you know it's it's something that I
find doing it and there's a quote Kurt
Vonnegut says that writing is like
alright when I'm writing I feel like a
man with no arms or legs with a crayon
in his mouth just like I know what you
mean I'm trying
this book and it's just like I wonder
what my head to the wall the short
answer is I ran out of room in my
journal oh it's like everyone has their
own journey for it right and so the way
that I started with writing my book was
actually after my first year at Burning
Man in 2015 I had started doing journal
entries specifically because like I I
started experiencing like real
heartbreak like I had been out of
college now I had started a relationship
for about a year and a half this
gentleman actually bought me my ticket
to Burning Man and then our relationship
for its own reasons ended up splitting
and for like all these different reasons
of why I'd always like journal there why
I'd always like documented my life I was
realizing that it was all kind of just
like repeating like and I almost refused
to see my own faults but I also would
find myself being mad at people for like
not wanting to take the blame
wanting to put all the blame on me but
then not wanting to like talk about it
so we could return to a state of being
friends so after I had all these like
conversations and stuff and me realizing
within myself that there was something
that I clearly was writing down on paper
that I didn't want to see um
the universe had me go to Burning Man
and within like that week and a half
that I was there I kid you not like I
had more personal growth and self-worth
of what it meant for me to expand within
like my own self-love and that was the
biggest thing I think I was I was
missing I I was so often trying to find
like how could I look good how could I
be good how could I have people think
I'm good and as often as you think you
want someone else to think that you
realize you're not allowing yourself to
be that similar we were talking like
egos and what now like so often when
you're in your head instead of just
being with like the present like I I
feel like I wasn't actually allowing
myself to feel the hurt feel the
embarrassment feel like the anger
because I was always trying to just have
it look good so at least for me why I
wrote a book is it pays
it pays my homage to just that that
personal challenge that you take to
share why you are and why I am still
struggling for the self love through
like this discovery where relationships
are still important to me but I still
haven't given them the full ability to
like air themselves out not with other
people but just through myself like for
family for friends for my line of work
and then lastly like my own identity
because I feel like and I write about
this more often than I have in the first
book as you said like write write books
I actually am writing a four-part series
happens to be one of four but the idea
behind identity like what I hope to gain
out of this full series is to have
people realize that everyone in your
life even if you want to write them off
for forever or they have already passed
on and gone to another realm on these
little echoes that I have in this book
are something that people have been
letting me know that they relate to
because even though I'm a different
person and I have different
relationships like these different
shapes of the conversations happen in
everyone's stages so I wrote this book
specifically because I want to complete
my chapters not just in the book but
through saunder light and what it means
to go through completing with your
family your friends what you want to do
as your purpose of line of work in this
universe and then also finding your I
own identity and a lot of that I call as
self discover me moments and it happens
in that order you you have to first
admit that there's something maybe that
you haven't seen in yourself and then
you express it and some people do it in
music some people do it in podcast and I
just happen to find that engineering
wasn't right for me at the moment so I
switched to become an author and I'm
right by writing the book so yeah holy
smokes
something in there I want to respond to
like ten things that you said but one
thing one thing in there and maybe I
should give a or maybe I'll give a
really quick synopsis of the book before
and I'll let you I like it I like you
give your own synopsis but like
I I just there's a quote that I broke
down earlier in preparation for this
that really was a lot of what you just
said and in so first of all the book is
sander lives or sander lives right and I
love how you play with language in this
book that's really that's one of the
really cool things your mastery over
language is amazing like it's incredible
and I'm I feel like that guy with the
crayon in his mouth no arms no legs like
I can't find the words you know what I
mean but like yours though the way that
you play with language in this book is
really cool and alright so here's the
quote in and just like I guess the quick
synopsis is sander is a Martian or
Marzian that is amnesiac she's kind of
coming to and like putting together her
past life and and that's what kind of
the book is her memories and things like
that and so this is a quote that I
really thought about while you were
talking everything that is part of this
Universal cycle burns it brightly in
unapologetically from a from from
degeneration to regeneration the flowing
cycle continuously repeats altering
minute and minute minute in minut bits
in versions of history to make it unique
for all versions of experience and
that's that's kind of like what you were
saying right there and then the key to
discovering lave is to find happiness
within yourself and yeah that like when
you were saying all that I'm like that
really popped out that thing that I just
wrote down and I wrote down just a
couple of quotes but that was wonderful
right so anyway so I believe Cassiopeia
then asked after that like how can you
find happiness within others if you
can't find it within yourself right
right and so it's Cassiopeia and I can't
see Opia yeah well again and that it's
funny because sometimes when I I sorta
neuroses people will call it case T and
it's it's I'm gonna be honest the first
time I had seen it spelled I spelled at
Cassiopeia um it's based on a star
constellation that I just I've always
seen my entire life
ww yeah yes and it she's got such a
brilliant story and I'm just like why
would anyone have a star constellation
that is supposed to always be punished
I'm like there has to be other side of
her story and so in this people really
wanted to think about it
for a lot of Cassiopeia or cast how did
you say it Cassiopeia SEO Pia
that's why I've already from it so at
least the idea behind this mother who
literally is willing to sacrifice her
own children I mean technically people
could have seen it that way too in this
book although I have a clan that has
nothing but lave and I'm just trying to
share this story from her daughter's
point of view I guess you can say it
because I feel like my mom relates with
her a lot at least within my family so
yeah I thought it was fitting cool and
then so you also mention that you were
an engineer and then you kind of
completely changed your path and decided
to become an author how did that come
about I'm glad you asked so coming back
from what had me even start writing this
book I had realized how many times I've
been in and out of relationships and
there was one relationship between the
one in 2015 and me meeting Daniel when I
moved out here in New York Burnham not
moved out here in New York City when I
moved to New York City I now live in
Minnesota where I for the last like five
years when I was an engineer I had
heavily put on myself this like 12 year
olds determination that when my parents
got a divorce it was I would never be
put in a situation where I relied on
someone else to take care of me because
I I saw what happened to my mom
like in in the eyes of a 12 year old to
go from like a household with like a dad
who was a plastic surgeon a mom who was
stay at home did like all the PTA stuff
for like schools and then got divorced
like my three older sisters left with my
dad like two of them still don't even
talk to my mom today and then me and my
little brother moving with my mom to
Joshua Tree which was just like so
hectic at the time because like we were
on welfare we were with like my
grandparents and it was just it was like
such like a transition that like I I
made it in my mind I was never going to
rely on anyone ever and so I think I was
just so headstrong and like being in a
career where I could do it all no matter
what anyone said and oh engineering to
be honest it's it's one of those ones I
it's like when people will usually say
like doctor lawyer engineer like there's
a reason engineers one of those those
industries because it's one of those
ones that you have to put a lot of your
life on the side if you're going to be
successful in your career and after
working in Los Angeles on this light
rail project in Crenshaw for like three
years I moved to New York and within a
couple months I have met Daniel which I
know you know Daniel but you guys are
one of my favorite couples you guys are
awesome like he had to put up with a lot
of what Janine was still dealing with
with this 12 year old struggling to like
be everything of like independent
because I was given another opportunity
that I didn't take but I would have been
in your neck of the woods it was a job
for Walsh in their headquarters in
Chicago right outside of the the
Millennium Park but um I chose at that
moment like really ask Daniel because at
the time he's like he'd only ever see me
like this um my typical day would go so
I'm like kind of backtracking of like
why this was so relevant to me but um my
typical day would be like I'd workout it
was so bad I'd like work at like 3:30
a.m. like at least for like 40 minutes
or so if I didn't go to the gym if I
went to the gym then I was like another
hour if I like and then I'd have to wake
up even earlier so insane but I'd be
ready out the door but like
I'd have to like ride the bus get to
work by like 6:00 my crews would be on
the field by 6:30 I would work all day
like crews usually went home by like
3:30 doing all the paperwork and whatnot
if I was lucky sometimes I get up like
5:00 or 5:30 and then another like hour
commute back home and it was just like
it was it was kind of draining on me and
at least for me like I was okay to tough
it out like this was like three years
like no more big deal than it had been
when I was in Los Angeles but this was
the first time I had someone who I
thought was actually really worth it and
so when I was talking to Daniel about
going to Chicago for this next job it
kind of had like us have a real
conversation like he would totally
support me but he didn't know if he
could actually keep doing this knowing
that for as much time as he was spending
away from his family and everything that
he was doing to come see me sometimes I
wasn't really home and so I I really had
like a hard contemplation at that point
because I started realizing like who was
i living my life for and so it was
interesting because it was it was in
September as literally I I had given up
going to Burning Man because I was going
to a wedding and all these other things
and at least for a work they weren't
gonna give me the full two weeks off so
like I chose to go to the wedding and
when I came back literally on September
11 I told my boss in 2018 I was like I
can't do this anymore
so I had stepped away from engineering
because I was realizing that it was not
aligning with the person that I wanted
to be as much as this twelve-year-old
wanted to hold on to like being that
hard shell of just that perfect looking
life and having like that career that
everyone's like oh it's amazing it sent
you to New York City I was willing to
let go of this fear that like because
you love someone you could possibly lose
your your livelihood and in that moment
of knowing what Daniel meant to me and
realizing what he means to me so much
especially in like 2020 during this
quarantine I am so glad I chose to step
away from having that career be the
reason that I wasn't living a life that
actually aligned with the type of
I wanted to give nothing against
engineers I'm just saying I i'm glad
after five years i was really looking at
it and realized that i no longer wanted
to have majority of my day be spent a
cube working on projects that for the
most part we're always going to be under
construction at least in here so yeah
wow i love that story and you know i
kind of had a similar thing I quit my
job back in 2017 and it was like sort of
on a whim it was just like I was just
kind of butting heads with my boss and I
was like and you know like and it's just
that it just didn't feel right you know
it was just um so I was just like you
know what I don't I don't think this is
really working for either it was you
know and so so I left and then since
then I worked on like a political
campaign I started my own startup which
wound up taking me to become the podcast
host of cypher con and took me to
Burning Man and took me to meet you so
like it's just it's really interesting
to see where like these places take us
if you you know jump out and make that
jump you know and so I've been like
creatively employed for like the last
three years and it's it's been it's been
a it's been a journey it's been a rush
so why write a sci-fi novel I have you
always been into sci-fi I think I see a
TARDIS behind you is that right actually
this this is all Daniel Daniel is my
doctor I joke around that I am the
TARDIS though because I feel like I can
make any space feel a lot bigger on the
inside anyway I love creating spaces and
I think that's what had him find me but
um no it's it's interesting because at
least for me like my my biggest pull
towards like wanting to write
specifically science fiction comes from
like me really looking at what
speculative fiction was my my biggest
like homage I guess I would pay to
writing this book was like a mix between
like the reality that I wanted the world
to be
like I think my first actually it's
still funny because it's the first
science fiction movie I'd ever like seen
and it's still my number one if anyone
ever asked like yeah Fifth Element I
like that movie yeah oh my gosh and it's
it's heartbreaking sometimes because I
really do think that like at least for
like the fifth element I feel like that
is one of the reasons that it's so big
for these extraterrestrials trying to
come to earth and teach these humans
love and it's interesting because at
least within that room the other thing
that I really love about the unnecessary
science fiction was like the idea of
like implementing different like tactics
and stuff was brave new world so at
least from a movies standpoint of like
science fiction I always see like Fifth
Element
and then from like a writers point of
view I look at autist Huxley with brave
new world so yeah it wasn't always
science fiction in my mind again like a
lot of these and if you read some of the
excerpts they are specifically from like
my trips to like Zion or like
conversations I've had with my brother
and then it just kind of worked out that
I don't think Marines would look that
different if they put on a skin suit so
Zion Zion National Park yeah oh yeah so
how did that inspire the book um at
least for that like I started having
this conversation with myself like it
was me I don't remember if I wasn't
really sure if at this time but it was
me and my big sister Nicole sorry my big
sorority cest my in my sorority she had
invited me with her partner and her
brother and his partner to go to Zion
unfortunately her brother's partner
wasn't able to go so like for a lot of
things like we were tag teaming on him
and then um her and her partner were
like always like pretty much like it was
almost like a couple's thing but it was
funny because like at least for her
brother Alex his will now husband wasn't
able to be there so is it interesting
cuz like in one day I remember my
favorite hikes that we did we did angels
landing which is about I think that's
like five point five miles round-trip
and then everyone else like at the end
like they're like oh we're kind of tired
maybe we'll go
weeping rock but no one wanted to go on
weeping rock so just me and Alex but
then me and I'll accepted weeping rock
and we're like let's go to observation
points I kid you not into one day we did
angels landing and then observation
point so like we did a half marathon and
hikes alone and my Angels landings like
one of the most intense hikes there is I
haven't died but I've heard have you
have you done it yet sorcerer no I have
not done it like my wife's really afraid
of heights and like we've heard it's
like we so we did Half Dome and so and
and she was really scared to Half Dome
and I've been wanting to do angels
landing and she like I don't know and
actually well she said she'd do it but
last time we went we went with her whole
family and so we just you know it was it
wasn't like one that everyone in the
family would want to do you know so we
did like some some easier hikes right so
I do want to do it at some point and the
subway really like because after that I
think it's a called Three Forks or
whatnot like that also leads into it yet
did you like a little bit of um
spelunking but it's like very small it's
like maybe like a 15-foot wall just gone
down and most the ropes are out there
but even for like small hikes like that
like I think that'd be like a good
transition for like people were afraid
of heights afraid of heights but we
started getting some of those things
under our belt so I didn't feel too bad
about the Angels landing yeah we well we
thought we were gonna die in Zion we
went like we did a we went to the Kolob
canyons and we did like a backpacking
trip in there and the trail followed
this dried-up riverbed and we just so we
just kind of went on the dried-up
riverbed we missed where the trail
actually turned off so we kept going on
this dried-up riverbed that turned into
a canyon and we started like sliding
down these like 20-foot boulders and
we're like there's no way we're getting
back up like it's not gonna happen
so like hopefully we find we were
supposed to go and so he kept going and
then we heard water eventually we're
like okay we're camping by a river so we
find that River we'll find that and we
did so but we were scared for a bit
there's like a rattlesnake that came
across a path for a while and we're like
a good sign and Sammy's very good but
anyways so you're in Zion
you go from angel slamming all the way
to observation point yeah it was it was
interesting at least for a few these
hikes and we had done and then total
side note but I'll talk to you later if
you ever got to needles because if it
was dry maybe it was a good time to go
there but at least for me like it was
like the first time I'd really like had
like those types of moments where it's
like you're doing things that you never
thought you were going to do and I
remember specifically when I got to
observation point and like looking to
the other side I'm like dang like that
is so bizarre that someone's standing on
that side right now like what are the
odds that anyone else in the entire day
started with observation point and then
swish it's like I had picked this weird
feeling like what if someone was doing
exactly what I was doing but like
opposite and again this was before like
I even wrote the book I think I remember
the trip I think 2013 or 2014 but it was
before I even thought about writing the
book but I remember like I started
writing down in my journal specifically
about like having that feeling of like
being in another place in the opposite
time that someone else has done
something and then when we got to like
the bottom of the trail it was like we
were waiting for the shuttle it's just
us too so there was like no real like
side conversation that's one thing I
love about like people who are willing
to like travel with me is realizing like
I don't always talk this much sometimes
I really do love just sitting with my
thoughts and so I was watching this
receptacle and like it was one of those
ones that like had the locked hinge but
because there was so much trash it
wasn't closing and I remember thinking
like gosh when are like the Rangers
gonna get here and like clean this up
like this this isn't how like a parks
supposed to be like this is before my
immediacy area like any of my Burning
Man tactics clicked in like push it down
myself but I remember seeing like these
overweight squirrels and like gosh like
just get out of here like go back to
nature like this is trash like don't do
this and I remember like literally after
like that moment like I had this thought
like what if I was the squirrel cuz
there's so many moments yeah there's so
many moments sometimes when I'm sitting
there and I'm like I'm I'm veggie now
and I can go for a run or I'm staying
around and like scrolling on my phone I
could be like
to someone and like in the moment of
water I've seen that squirrel and I
thinking like gosh you look in my mind I
like you look like a slob like get out
of here like you're literally like
scroungy for trash right now like that
that is one of the moments that happened
in my book that I was like like what it
would be like to actually switch them
position because I'm the other thing
that I felt really bad about night hey I
end up cutting this whole part out cuz
like I was like I wasn't ready to write
it yet we got back to our camp and there
were just like opposite of these fat
squirrels there was like these really
like skinny like gamey looking deer and
I just felt so bad I'm like even if they
were like I don't know like sometimes I
think about it and like I think how
often like as as we're supposed to be
like nomadic right like how like we
start as a contra gatherers we never
like really stayed like when we create
communities around these like natural
environments where we come and go we
don't even think about it sometimes like
we'll get those extra snacks cuz it's
just fun to munch on like we literally
create an environment for like the
natural inhabitant sometimes to then
become dependent on our stuff and I just
like I was having such a hard time after
that because at first I was like oh
that's so cool switchers position and
like oh I was talking so badly but then
when I saw like that deer I was like
dang like I don't want to switch
positions anymore like I just wanna I
want to have more of like a healthier
type of like impact and I hadn't been
vegan yet I don't even think I was
vegetarian but I started having those
thoughts about what am I putting in my
body but yeah so that's that's how that
whole happened was I on like Zion was
like a huge impact for me to realize
like how how often we can relate from
like so far like distance apart and then
I just had it started having these
feelings maybe we're just like the
hiking high but I started really wanting
to like switch positions with other
things not just humans but yeah that's
how Zion played it on it that's nice and
and I like how you know hiking or put
hiking and traveling and like being in
new places can kind of really change
your thought process I feel like if you
like a lot of times when I'm out there
doing something new or going go
in like Burning Man for example are
going to and and so we did a trip where
we mean my wife after we graduated
college we went and before we got like
way before we got married we took a trip
out west and we went to like 11
different national parks had like eight
different backpacking trips we did all
this stuff and and that's when we went
to the kalam canyons and almost felt
like we're here and I and I listened but
there's I was amazed at how much there
was in the United States and it really
gets you thinking differently about
things and I feel like everyone should
do that everyone should go travel or or
even traveling especially like in other
cultures to like we've lived in Honduras
for a year and doing that like in going
to a place where you don't speak the
language and you're kind of the outsider
and like trying to figure out and like
I'd always try to talk with my neighbors
and stuff and they would laugh at me
because I was a silly gringo and all
this kind of stuff but it was it was you
know and I think doing that gives you
more perspective and gives you a way to
like you said observe that other person
and think about did they do what we did
in a different point or you know like or
you just you know I think just
empathizing with people and looking at
things from different perspectives I
don't know that's that's that's my
thought when you're saying all that I'm
thinking about you know yeah that's
really cool because it gives you like
this new perspective and gives you new
ideas and gives you a spark of
inspiration that you can write in a book
that's awesome well thank you thank you
for sharing that cuz yeah it is kind of
a profound thing when you're actually
able to empathize with something when
you seriously have never actually
experienced it like in that case we just
think oh I sympathize but no like I
really do think as humans we have the
ability to empathize without actually
experiencing it which is just again that
consciousness or that that connection
that we all already have it's just we
don't exercise it and like these
conversations we don't usually have
these conversations to realize how often
this does happen yeah so tell me about
the book I gave a little synopsis
that was my synopsis but let me hear
from your angle okay so at least for me
it takes place following the new spacer
recruits that had just come into on the
spacer program and you are following
sonder light who is immigration from
mares and she's about to go to earth to
complete her mission but something
happens that causes the universal nation
to report that sander has been lost in
an untimely explosion gasps uh so you
follow her like you'd said like after
she wakes up with amnesia and as soon as
she does she starts realizing that she's
pixelated and she's being pretty much
like um not accused but being
infiltrated for information that she
can't collect but as this infiltration
frame information starts happening she
starts realizing she has fragmented
memories that haven't fully been
understood even by her so through all of
this confusion she starts to pursue her
own self-discovery which has her start
uncovering hypocrisy that was hidden
within her own spacer program and within
her own mission
so with all of this confusion and all of
this need to seek clarity you follow
saunder in what is going to start in an
epic unfolding unfolding of her own
discovery through what it means to be
human which i think is very important
for everyone who lives on earth because
as far as I know on earth we are human
beings so you get to experience it and
what I call saunder Liz or saunder lives
because as of right now in this book you
take place with Marie even who is trying
to explain to people that she is still
alive
but maybe through the explanation of
what it means to be alive you start
realizing how could any one person not
be alive if we are all part of the
saunder lives Wow that was a much better
synopsis than what I gave that's that's
so so one of the things that you play
with and I mentioned before is you can
play with language lab but also
community
in like the way that people community
bar shion's are and not everyone's a
Marzian either so like the way that they
communicate is not always verbally
sometimes it's telepathically there's
like four different versions that you
had in there and I remember it's a
verbal the telepathic and then you have
like in italics and underline the other
different ways of explaining how they're
actually communicating I thought that
was really clever and I and what so what
was the significance of that and why did
you do that and also I was wondering why
do Mars ian's even talk at all it's like
an just telepath telepathically speak
thank you I'm glad you asked that
because like at least in mine so I'll
answer your last question and that'll
work it backwards
um the reason that my engines actually
do learn how to speak and this goes
through I forget which chapter it is
like chapter four or five Aryans lesson
who's her brother it's because they want
to blend in with us because as far as we
are as a human race anything that is
considered dangerous or unknown for some
reason we think it is great to just
knock it out experiment on it take out
its organs so as much as they want to
they want to blend in and so for them to
learn not only how to speak the language
but also speak in American because there
are in America which is very different
than English and I like that you you had
mentioned that because sometimes I was
playing around do I do I spell Oh like
English where they start spelling color
with an O you favorite with oh you like
nah I keep it a little bit less on that
side but the reason that they even
bother with learning English and how to
use the vocal communication is because
they are here to help us get out and to
realize that one of the scariest things
for at least for me like and it's only
interesting because like this actually
is one of my biggest fears is that I'm
gonna get abducted by aliens and not get
robbed off I don't even feel bad if
people
it's weird because I have looked at UPS
or sir and this is a huge fear that a
lot of other people will relate to I
will have you know but um no that is a
fear cuz like I'm same thing with people
who play around with magic like um like
I'd shared with you like III love the
idea of magic but I'm actually terrified
of Voodoo because I don't know what it
means when certain people are able to
tap into things and as long as you
believe it you are actually susceptible
to it um so for me like it's how do you
as like a higher not a higher power but
like someone who is more aware of how
connected we are connect with people who
are only able to communicate and one of
the reasons I added this into this book
specifically these different types of
waves of communicating is I said that
kind of weird the different ways of
communicating is realizing that I'm
trying to practice it in my own my own
light like I'm starting to meditate I'm
trying to practice astral projection and
the more I'm talking to people about
these conversations that I used to never
have as an engineer sitting in New York
City but I'm starting to find people who
actually are able to relate with animals
and sometimes they're able to talk with
me and they can it's the scariest thing
but it's also the coolest thing they and
I hope other people who are listening to
this actually do get experience this at
least once in their lives like there are
people who can literally tell you what
you are thinking or like how you are
experiencing certain things without you
talking and so just knowing that that is
a possibility that humans carry within
us I'm like how would it look if people
were actually able to tap into this so
the way that I have these different
types of like wording is like based on a
normal book people will see it as like
verbal communication and I'll just be in
quotation marks when people in the book
start using telepathy it's italicized
but quotation marks when there are
another level of inner communication
where it's it's like a direct line I'll
do quotation marks italicize and
underline and then there's this fourth
kind which I don't explain too much in
this book yet but I have it starting to
be like recognized is there's a fourth
part which is the inner intelligence and
it's when you're able to communicate
with your
own conversations as it's a separate
entity so that is like quotations
italicized underlined and fold because
as the books continue on you'll see how
this starts happening more and more
frequently but so often we are almost
trained to like have conversations but
then as soon as you like go in your head
and you start thinking these thoughts
these thoughts seem like they are you
and one thing that I'm so aware of now
in meditation is realizing that our
thoughts are not us that is like the ego
that is our conversation a lot of times
it doesn't always tell us the best
things either a lot of times it goes
into that fear chamber I just like tries
to throw it all out but the reason I
have these different types of
communications is like I want to start
expressing myself
in a way that people who are able to tap
into these different types of
communications understand that I i have
awareness of it and i'm learning i I
just don't understand how to do it just
yet so that that's why I added it and at
least firm arisians again aliens are a
little bit of a touchy subject for me
because same thing with like spirits and
like ghosts and stuff they've they've
actually had a big role in my family so
for me like it's not taboo and my mom
says she grew up with a ghost in her
house or that she will see our our past
pets come visit her sometimes even here
in Stillwater Minnesota but um it does
freak me out to know that if those ever
happened to me I get freaked out like
I'm okay hearing about other people's
experiences but as soon as it happens to
me sorcerer I I do kind of go into like
my they don't take me away kind of
feeling so that that's why I included in
my book at least the communication wow
thanks for sharing all that I love that
Jeanine I was I was you know one of the
things and one of the reasons why I
wanted to have you on is I've been going
in to like consciousness hacking and
thinking about how and the reason why
I'm thinking about consciousness hacking
is on my last podcast we talked about
observing your thoughts and Krishnamurti
is a thinker that
thinks about observing your thoughts in
your own programming and how can you
hack you in programming and realize it
for what it is and we're talking about
it in the sense of well democracy in
order to have democracy we got to have
well inform public and it's like well
who told you that like why do you have
to have that it's like well I learned it
in school I learned this I learned so so
you can trace it back to all these
things that you learned externally but
like do they really mean anything and
they're just like these these constructs
and these programs and you can and it's
difficult to do but you can like through
meditation through thoughtful
observation you can look at your
thoughts and look at your programming
and figure out why you don't have to do
anything with it that's what
Krishnamurti and that's that's the best
kind of the thing with Krishnamurti I
don't get because he's just like talking
about you know he's got a book called
freeing yourself from the known and so
on that's a that's on my reading list
and it's like that concept of there's
this freedom when you're not attached to
your thoughts and your knowledge and the
way that the world works
you're a blank slate and you're wide
open and and so I feel like there's
there's these different ways that you
can do that and you're talking about you
know playing around with astral
projection and I was telling you about
before we started my sister's doing this
shamanic journeying where she's going
into these worlds I think I'm gonna have
her on the podcast and talk about this
too
and and you know you can do that through
drumming and putting yourself in a state
in we're we're living on like this this
very I don't know basic level and
there's so much under the iceberg I feel
like a consciousness and so anyway I
love that you brought that up and I love
that you put all this into your book
because you're exploring it I'm
exploring it as well I don't I don't
know much of anything I actually that's
one thing I know is I don't know
anything and I think it's something that
Socrates Feynman famously said and and
it's it's cool I love that concept I
love that you're exploring it through
what's possible
like there could be all these other
different types of communication that we
don't even know about and I think it's
it's it's beautiful that you're able to
express that so creativity because I've
never seen anything like that maybe it's
out there I don't know but have you ever
um I was thinking about this I actually
I'll let you respond if you want to
respond first okay do you have I mean do
you have anything that you want it's
only justice yes we kind of talked about
this a little bit before but yeah I need
to reach out to your sister cause like
as like I'm sharing about this book is
like the same reason why I'm like okay
I'm glad I no longer just had these
thoughts in my journal like this was the
time for me to start having these types
of conversations and like the more I and
the more I'm finding like the little
because like that's another thing that I
actually really liked it's like on the
back of my book the clothes like all oh
it is life but an endless string of
stories because so often like we just
keep our stories to herself it's only
when we share them that we're able to
echo it out and as soon as you echo it
out like yes maybe if you only say it
once it won't come back but the more you
send it out the more you'll start
hearing the echoes returns yeah so you
sharing about your sister and sharing
about these books and like now you like
the Monroe like University I'm like
there's so many things like I am so glad
I'm having type of conversations and not
just keeping it inside anymore like it
is a really great thing to discover what
humans are capable of when they actually
do open up and start sharing to other
universes so no I'm good because I
already know where I have to go and now
I know there's gonna be a podcast okay
cool yeah it'll be whenever now she's
now she's doing some trail working in
California so she's like she's gone
she's off the grid for like a few months
so I probably won't get to it for a
while yeah so so but it's the Monroe
Institute and I'll put that in the show
notes too and this was the thing that I
have discovered about astral projection
like and actually I had a guy on the
podcast who mentioned shoot so this so I
had Richard theme on the podcast who
actually did a lot of research on aliens
and stuff like that
and he wrote like one of the most
scholarly books on aliens a table like
Project Blue Book and the government's
their strategy to subvert like the the
fact that like all of these like all
these pilots and in World War two all
saw these crazy things and they said no
we're not going to share that with the
public and we're not going to share
anything that remote that's about UFOs
with the public at all and and so so he
wrote like this whole thing on like a
book a lot of it was on that and a lot
of it was on just UFOs in general and he
mentioned this guy and I can't remember
his name but I looked him up and he was
one of the leaders in the Monroe
Institute and also used remote viewing
in the military and yeah it's crazy and
I can't remember the guys name but I'll
find it and send it to you I'll put in
the show notes to so you guys can find
it too but Monroe Institute is all about
using like these different tones in your
ears and your headphones that will get
you to leave your body and be able to
Remote View astral projection and remote
viewing same same different same same
kind of concept but like the military
was using this stuff and like it's out
there and it's super interesting stuff
and it's not something that we we don't
explore this in school we don't explore
you know these types of things but they
were real and we can't explore them and
and I'm starting to be like maybe I
should go down these paths a little more
because they're super interesting and
and so I yeah I'm so glad you brought
all that up so that's awesome
hey have you ever read the book stranger
straight man stranger in a strange land
there it is Wow it's a book about a
Martian that comes to earth - well wound
up at Earth and like all these
Earthlings are like there's a Martian
here and like anyways the protagonist
like winds up like saving this Martian
and they become like become water
brothers there's like this whole thing
about water sharing and stuff it's
really interesting you should check it
out it's by Robert Heinlein and
it's a fantastic book about and it's a
good one too strangeness
yeah stranger in a strange land and I
you know I thought about it when I
started reading your book because it's
similar in that concept where you take
it's a good way to do a satire you know
taking an alien looking at the human
life and it's like you looking at the
squirrel and being like I'll squirrel
don't do that please don't you know it's
I love that I love that concept cool so
uh do you have any I invited you to
share any of your favorite passages from
the book if you want to do you have any
that you want to share with us because
like again any paint homage like the
relationships that I've gone through and
realizing what it means to let go
actually I did a podcast with this woman
in Korea
Kate emerald she's amazing I mean she
was teaching me about uncoupling couples
and like it's the idea that when you
come into like any type of relationships
and it doesn't have to just be like
loving ones but specifically this one
was about marriage coupling when you
love someone but you no longer want to
be with them there's the idea that you
love them so much that you want them to
be happy going elsewhere and granted I
didn't know it was called coupling and
coupling until like I think was like
last week when I was on her podcast but
um the passage that has been sticking
out to me recently specifically with
like everything going on with like
people feeling a certain way or being
upset that other people are doing things
in life the one that sticks out to me is
one night lady Andromeda actually said
to Sir Reginald and so it goes I mark
you free from ever being deterred by
another by bestowing on to you an
expression of unconditional bliss to
lave is to live to live is to flow to
flow is to give to give is to grow and
all of our moments this we must know
abracadabra
and the reason I like that one so much
in my book and I know other people will
telling like other ones that are very
profound like in at least like topical
nature like the reason I choose this one
is it really for me was one of those
expressions that when I was saying it
I'm saying it's like everyone I've ever
been in a relationship with because for
people who haven't read the book yet on
the story of lady Andromeda and Sir
Reginald are there two shooting stars
that literally are about to collide but
in that moment it actually means that
they'd be connected but in my mind I
also have to think like okay even if
you're connected your giant balls of
fire flying through space so you're
going to collide and explode which is
also symbolic of thunder anyway um and
in this moment as they're coming close
she actually says this because she
realizes that if she hit were to collide
with Sir Reginald he would not continue
for it and for people who don't read it
just yet um Reginald is actually being
watched by the entire universe and even
though the entire universe is watching
Reginald he just wants to be with her
and she doesn't want to be the reason
that he gets deterred by having his life
be the legendary thing that it must
become and so she wants to leave him
with unconditional bliss because one
thing that I have experienced with so
many of my relationships is I would not
be the person I am for Daniel Yanis Ford
if it was not for all of those
heartbreaks that I used to like hate
myself for or be so upset that they're
no longer friendships or be bitter
towards the way that they ended because
everything has to happen the way it does
and the biggest thing that I realize
about energy is it's not supposed to be
stored and it's not supposed to be
contained and so often I feel like
people get in relationships where they
feel like I have to stay with this
person because I've spent so much time
or so many people are counting on me but
if you ever live your life for other
people knowing that you are actually
sacrificing your own happiness you
aren't doing the justice that you want
because what I'm finding now is like
what if you could find someone and
granted this isn't anyone about saying
oh oh you need to end your relation
it's realizing like what if you could
find someone and sorcerer like I I give
mad props to relationship to cuz like
for someone to be able to go to Bernie
man with a partner and then be like okay
with it like so much trust so much
unconditional love that you and your
wife share cuz like that's how me and
Daniel are cuz like there were moments
when I almost didn't go to Peru I almost
didn't go to California I almost didn't
go to Burning Man that next year but
like it's realizing that if you're able
to go on a path and you're so aligned
with what your purpose is in this
universe I almost guarantee at least in
my mind and what I've experienced is the
universe will align you with someone who
goes in the same path with you without
you having to sacrifice anything it
actually makes you two a lot stronger to
be able to go with your own love and
find your flow and keep giving it
knowing that the more you give the more
you grow and in those moments we must
all know that magic is all around us and
we should never have to feel like you
have to give up anything in order to be
with someone else so if you could find
your happiness to have those other
people that you feel like you have to
like sacrifice your life for if you can
find it in your heart to allow them to
live whatever life it is by blessing
them unconditional happiness even though
you might not be the one that gives them
that happiness I promise you this
universe has energy out there that will
be aligned with you like tenfold but
yeah that that is one of my favorite
quotes cuz like I even end it with
abracadabra because I'm like I speak it
that that is what it is oh yeah my
favorite passage I love that and I love
I heard it recently said as you know
it's the difference between a
codependent relationship and a committed
relationship where like the codependent
is like your kind of tit for tat like
you're you're watching the like I had to
watch the kids today so I'm gonna go
hang out with my buddies and go golfing
all weekend
you know there's like this exchange like
I'm giving this thing up so now I get to
do this thing
versus like in the co committed one
where it's like you're living for each
other's happiness for your own happiness
but also for your each other's happiness
and and so I love that that's that's
fantastic
um and I did want to talk a little bit
about like there was a passage that I
found that I think is you know I've been
doing these podcasts like during kovat
and and like every week the news is
crazy different and so it's like so
today's like June 2nd so we're in kovat
and you know George
Floyd was murdered last week and you
know all the major cities of the United
States are are uprising right and it's
just like people want justice and I
remember reading this passage and I was
thinking about and I asked you if you
wanted to talk about this in in the
light of what's going on and so I'll and
you said that you you would want to talk
about it and so the passage is how can
you justify if life on one side thinks
that they're the only way when the other
side is thinking the same justice is not
the solution mercy is I was just like
wow wow and I think and you talk about
that also within I think after that
passage you talked about the war within
worlds and the war within words and and
that's just another so can you just tell
me a little bit about that kind of whole
passage in that happened that whole line
of thinking and then and maybe thinking
about like and you're in Minnesota right
you're in Stillwater I'm super close to
Minneapolis right and so maybe reflect
on if you could reflect on you know this
passage in what's happening right now
yeah and it is kind of crazy because
again like
I didn't know a lot of this was going to
be happening even when I thought I was
going to start writing this book let
alone going through the editing and
getting it done but I'm I'm still so
torn with like how Americans use
language because so often like the thing
that always gets me in trouble
especially out here in Minnesota is this
idea behind sarcasm or passive
aggressiveness which again I don't know
how the media is portraying at all but
the way that I see it a lot of times
like our words really do shape our
worlds and specifically with wanting
justice in certain areas of actions that
have been taken so like this coming from
like an an extraterrestrial who's trying
to teach her children what it means to
want justice where the rest of the
universe at this point they don't have
war anymore so there isn't killing of
your own kin and they consider everyone
kin like yes you have offspring and yes
you have your Guardians but everyone is
Yin's and Yang's everyone is brothers
and sisters so when they see humans and
we are just different colors it is
really abstract to them to think that
they don't even come from different
planets it's literally the same planet
so how could you ever justify you
knowing that energy is just recycling
saying that I want justice for what had
happened in a situation and everyone I I
I love the idea behind it in certain
cases but then especially this last week
like I just feel so torn sometimes
because I hear people wanting justice
and the way that the protests have been
going like their suit like the ones that
I've been part of super peaceful like
even in the situations where like we we
are standing outside of people's houses
and like where we're putting up like art
around poles or or there are streamers
and it's it's just kind of profound
because like you you hear all these
different stories of like literally in
the same city of George Floyd where you
didn't make it on to the news you hear
about these mothers who literally would
go like month without hearing autopsy
reports or like being denied even
knowing like where they're they're loved
one czar and I hear the anger behind
like the people who have lost loved ones
but then I'll see posters or I'll see
other posts about people saying kill and
it's I I understand wanting people to
have to go through like the justice
system and I understand people wanting
them to be tried and I do understand the
idea of like the death sentence but at
the same time like what I'm really
recognizing is as much and that's what I
love that passage as much as we want it
to be equal what we really want what I
really believe humans want at the bottom
of our hearts is fairness and realizing
that if anyone were to be killed because
someone else got killed and I'm not
saying people who have been killed
should not get justice to what is owed
um I just don't see how people can
possibly who are upset say that the only
justice is to then kill other people
because all you're gonna have all you're
gonna have is on the other side their
mothers and their kids and and I know
that not everyone sees people as equal
which is a whole taboo thing for me in
general cuz I I don't understand I I
came into this world with a black dad
and a white mom like I don't know like
it just it's it's hard for me to ever
say that because someone got killed
because someone was very hurt in
whatever they're going through it
justifies other people saying I want
them to be dead now too because I feel
like that's what happens in humanity so
often we want what happened to be done
to that person and it's so easy to want
that and granted I haven't lost someone
like that so I can only empathize for
what it means to actually lose a loved
one when it comes to like not having it
be felt like it was right but if we can
really come together and realize what
humanity
really wants is mercy more than someone
having to pay for the cost that they've
already paid like what if instead of
wanting justice we actually do find a
way to have mercy on those people who
did wrong and have them come to the
realization because the thing that I
feel so strongly for especially with
like the idea and I know not everyone
agrees with it but reincarnation because
one of the biggest things that I do
agree with with this idea of energy and
however consciousness gets connected
between like our nerves and and
everything that is around us is energy
cannot be created nor destroyed so when
someone a literal life is destroyed in a
way that is hateful hindering or harmful
to their families to their loved ones
their lives to their own livelihood I
feel like when it gets recycled it holds
on to that hate hindrance or harm and it
comes back in that same order so what if
before we just decide to destroy
something that literally has energy what
if we could find a way to have it become
aware of why it feels a certain way
because ending it isn't the solution
it's just gonna come back so what if as
humanity we are able to discover what it
means in reality to have us challenge
why we feel justice means you have to
end things justice isn't the end justice
should be the beginning and the
beginning really starts with mercy um
yeah so I I don't know I've been to a
few of these protests now and like I and
walking around these towns and I am
really like distraught because like
granted I've only been here since
September of last year but half of the
places that are considered icons or like
establishments for the people are burned
down and destroyed and like I see the I
see the anger but at the same time like
I feel like where most of the hate is
coming from that's destroying it isn't
even from this city isn't even from
Minnesota it's it's this this idea that
coming
one else's place and causing more pain
than what is actually even being even
possible it's it's almost like it wants
to push it to a part where it's not even
seeking justice it's it's trying to I
don't even know what the word would be
source or like I am kind of at a loss
right now but like it's just recognizing
that if we are saying that we want
justice and we are on a platform where
people are coming together realizing how
much pain it is I don't know if the
right thing to come right after that is
to then want a broken system to be the
reason it gets ended like the biggest
thing that we need to discover is how
can we have these types of reprimanding
happen outside of the broken system um
because again like from where I'm
standing from and seeing some of these
actions that authority are taking I
don't know if even if you put it in
their hands they would know what to do
because I don't think they know what
anything looks like outside of their
idea of justice yeah yeah yeah thanks
for sharing all that I vow I mean and I
think you know we have this really
punitive justice justice system where
you know we punish people for for things
instead of trying versus like a
restorative justice system where you you
try to I mean you don't I mean yeah you
hold people responsible but you don't
put the blame on them you know that
they're people and people can make
mistakes and people can people can
change and people can get get better so
I think a lot of it is within that
criminal justice system itself but then
we also have this history I mean the
United States has had just I mean
there's just a a crazy long history of
like all of this stuff that we I mean
the racism and has never gone away and
so if we don't acknowledge that like we
we can't move past it and and and these
things keep happening over and over
again we're stuck on the same channel so
yeah thanks I mean thank you so much for
sharing all that and I think that that
you have just a ton of insight on this
stuff and I think yeah I mean I think
that I I agree I think that humans I was
I was just thinking to like I just read
my wife was reading the book just mercy
have you read this book
Wow and it's about like death row and
like all these people on death row and
they've been like and a lot of them were
on death row for a long time and so this
guy I think it's the Innocence Project
know he started a different project when
he worked with the Innocence Project but
basically getting people off death row
that are innocent and like just like all
the wrongs like within the system itself
anyways she on our way back we were up
north for Memorial Day weekend and on
our way back I read the last three two
pages to her because like she said I'm
not gonna finish my book I'm like I'll
read to you in the car if you drive so
again she can't read when when she
drives how I read it to her and one of
the things that struck me at the end of
the book and I'm gonna spoil her so if
you want to read the book don't listen
to this part but I guess so it doesn't
spoil it but there's this lady that's
sitting at the courthouse and she's been
going to all these court hearings with
this guy who was an attorney that was
getting all these people off um she she
gave him a big hug and she was she
called herself a she's a stone a stone
catcher because all these people have
stones all these people that are
fighting for justice have all these
stones that are getting thrown Adam and
they and and she originally I think her
her son was killed by somebody and she
went she didn't want the person that
killed her son to get the death penalty
and so she went and consoled those
families
those stones and she caught these stones
and so she's like it's hard being a
stone cutter and she hugged the attorney
who's been catching these stones for
like this is his whole life project like
he's been trying to get people and he's
dealt with just like crazy and justices
and like that like that kind of weight
just weighs on you right and so um I
think about that and she had the ability
to forgive that person who killed her
son and like make that other that other
family like try to console them and I
was just like wow what a superhuman
right and and I feel like we need more
superhumans and I think that concept of
what you're talking about is us being
superhuman so yeah I mean I think um you
know we went through a lot here and I
think is there any other topics that you
want to talk about we had a bunch of
other things that we could potentially
continue to talk about but I think that
might be a good place to wrap up but if
you have any what is that no I think
that's good it's interesting though
because like I know like you gave me
like a bunch of like I'm gonna do this
like as quick as I can but I knew you're
gonna have these types of organic even
our conversation on the podcast know it
interesting cuz at least for me like
sometimes when I think about like what
it means to like have conversations with
people and I I think this is a really
good note to end on like realizing like
how often weed and I consider like an
echo chamber because what I'm hearing
even like after I said what I said I'm
like did I say anything that I'm gonna
regret later cuz like right now like I
am realizing it's such a sensitive type
of conversation and I like that you and
your wife are people who are reading
other people's stories and reaching out
and asking people other things because
one thing that I do realize especially
at this like time and like it be very
touchy cuz like it's no I don't even to
call the word touchy it's being real
on subjects that people don't usually
talk about like the fact that we're able
to talk about magic and aliens and the
idea of forgiving people that most
people would rather like cast to like
the fire or or have them be written up
and it's it's realizing that like
someone everyone who is on this planet
started out as a child as far as I know
everyone started as a child and as far
as I know
children do not know hate it is
something that is taught and more than
that what I'm discovering about people
who look at one side or the next like
it's not an easy thing to ever admit
that you're wrong
so imagine what it's like to know that
you might be wrong when you were trying
to do something that I'd like to say
they were they were doing their job but
at the same time realizing that they did
something wrong which was against what
their job is and now knowing how many
people are angry at them like what are
the odds they're gonna turn around and
say whoa I'm wrong I'm so sorry so it's
realizing sometimes like how human we
can be in moments where we know we are
in just but then also realizing that
this thing about racism and this thing
about Authority and this thing about
what is considered safe like it is a
really profound time that we're in
specifically now during this 20 20 of
our history books because I have no idea
what history is going to look like I
have no idea what is going to be taken
from this time but one thing that I do
know is these types of conversations
need to be had because what if we are
able to become that generation that is
able to figure out how to have people
who are so angry by the oppression or so
upset at the system or not realizing
what it would be like for everyone to
actually experience equality on a loved
that isn't just within the government
system or the governing systems because
even before this like and it's kind of
crazy before this whole last month like
my biggest worry was actually happening
with like what was actually going on
with corona like the fact that like
that's not even a thing right now during
these protests kind of does blow my mind
because it realizes at least in my mind
it has me realize that like there are
bigger things than me pretending
pretending that sounds bad there's
bigger things than me protecting what
I'm actually staying inside for and at
the same time like also realizing that
it's not just what I'm staying inside
for it's what I'm standing up to in
these types of moments because like we
were talking about even before we got on
to this podcast right now it is
recognizing that like how much
involvement do we actually have knowing
that a lot of our ways of communication
right now have been like I don't wanna
say cut but have been like um lesson
because we're not going out as much as
we do and so like I appreciate you as
someone in my life because source or
like there are so many things that are
happening right now like at least within
my own self-discovery journey that I'm
not experiencing right now because as
much as I can I'm following the rules
but then realizing how many rules are
set that are not having everyone having
their voices being heard so I appreciate
people like you who even in moments like
this like you're you're literally like
the virtual foot soldiers like you're
out there you're making these
conversations happen so yeah this this
is a good stopping point and then at
least for people out there in the cyber
con community and who are thinking about
writing your books and having book ideas
if there's one thing I can give you
write down all the ideas that come to
you especially the ones that come out of
nowhere um because it's important like
like sir Sir I'd mentioned to catch
those things like I might not be the
person who's
I'm catching rocks for people who are in
justified or on death row but I am
definitely someone who is realizing that
these questions and curiosities that
people are having during these times
like they're not actually being talked
about as much and as much as I can I'm
trying to be that voice because I
realized that some of these messages
that I felt like came to me like these
last five years like they are something
that are coming out of me more than
anything and when people are reaching
out to you as whatever writer you're
going to become for them because you are
going to have people who are going to
read your book you are gonna have people
who are coming to you later with their
book ideas get your ideas out as fast
you can't worry about grammar we're
about editing later because the one
thing that you can really do is write a
rough construct of whatever your scenes
or points of view look like in your book
without having to be finished later
editor's will help you I promise you
you'll find those people because again
you're manifesting what you want to
create in this world and if you like me
I'm not I'm not a music writer I'm not a
podcaster I am NOT an engineer anymore
I'm an author so what I can do in these
types of moments is right and if you are
interested in becoming that writer - I
hope this message reaches you because
like what I was writing this book there
there are moments where you're you're
writing a chapter and you might not know
what you're gonna put in in that space
and it it might come like a month or
late month or two later like when I was
writing the commencement speech I
literally just put insert epic speech
then I continued the rest of the chapter
knowing that it was going to come to me
later but there isn't any right way to
start whatever project you're taking on
but if you are interested in having your
words be turned in to an external world
you want to get these thoughts out you
want to start having these types of
discoveries within yourself because
you're holding them on inside of you get
them out without feeling like it has to
be perfect because perfection just like
timelines they're wibbly-wobbly they
they they don't they don't always look
the best the first time through
um but make sure you catch those ideas
and you put them down because if this
world wants you to have them it's
because they want you to share them echo
those out wait till the echoes come back
and then just continue the process but
thank you sorcerer for creating this
platform for me Thank You cypher Khan
community who is not only listening this
podcast but also hopefully taking some
insights with you as well in regards to
what it means to have concepts and what
it means to create a community of
collaborative fingers thank you awesome
thank you so much winner and then where
can people find you if they want to see
what you're up to where can they find
your book yeah so as of right now I only
have it on one platform I put it on
Amazon again you look up Songer lives or
sagar lives and the first one out is
part H here lies sonder light it's
available in both the Kindle and also
the paperback if you want to find me on
Facebook you can just find me my name is
right there but Janine Watkins or Janine
Ayana Watkins I've got to Facebook's
thing about it later YouTube I'm
actually under saunder asterisks light
lives and on Instagram you can find me
at ninja underscore the number nine ine
sown in Janine but yeah I'm I'm out on a
couple different platforms on the
internet the social web and at least on
this you could just keep re watching
this one podcast and just enjoy the
soothing voice that kind of went in and
out sometimes when emotions got hot
alright thank you so much winner and I
appreciate you and you dropping all of
your knowledge on us and yeah this has
been a lot of fun and yeah thank you so
much safe travels stay open be well
everyone