ladies and gentlemen please welcome
Minister of State the Department of the
tea shocked and foreign affairs and
trade with special responsibility for
European affairs and data protection mr.
Dara Murphy well good morning that's a
grater to grate em introduction thank
you very much and I'd like to thank dia
a PP for having me here this morning and
it's funny you know these things that we
put up there seems to be one agreement
whether you want to call it the right to
be forgotten or whatever else whatever
politicians say can ever be forgotten
we're definitely in the in the group
with it where there's agreement and I've
delighted to be here at this at this
very important event and to thank as i
said the AAP p for that for the the
invitation and I suppose I just wanted
to talk to you briefly both about
developments in our own country in
Ireland the European Union a data
protection regulation generally and I
suppose our own new data analytics enter
and our Magna Carta for data my own
appointment about seven months ago now
was as the first it was correctly said
European Union country to specifically
allocate a minister Minister of State
with responsibility for data protection
i'm also the minister for european
affairs which which has a obviously a
significant role in european union
politics and the department is located
co-located i suppose in our department
of justice from the crime element from
the policy element in the department of
the t check which is our prime
minister's office ireland is very fully
aware of course of the importance of the
the space we're moving into the
importance of data protection we have in
our country 29 of the top 30 digital
companies in the world nine of the top
10 born on the internet companies in
fact many of them have their
European headquarters in Ireland
currently so one of the key priorities
that we set when we had or reshuffle a
number of months ago was too I suppose
considerably up the role and the
importance of data protection within
within government so we have doubled for
example or expenditure in our data
protection office with open the second
office in Dublin and significant
significant significant ly increased the
number of staffing so as you will be
aware by the end of this year it is
estimated that there will be almost five
billion connected things in circulation
which will rise to 25 billion over the
next four years the Internet of Things
of course is here and it's growing very
very quickly against this measure I
suppose we finally in Europe have moved
towards moving with more energy and more
speed with respect to the data
protection regulation I'll come to that
in a minute domestically and I suppose
every country is is dealing with this
issue in a different fashion we have put
in place and enter a departmental group
are to look at data protection will be
aware at the moment even in the European
Commission there are three commissioners
all of whom have some role in the
digital or in the data space
Commissioner anceps Irving ER and and
yer over so we're trying a supposed to
give a single point of contact for our
departments whether it is in the Justice
element whether it is in how our
departments exchange data and of course
some of our large data holding
departments like you would have here and
everywhere else in Europe our
departments of health education and
social protection the theory is I
supposed to have a shared and common
practice across all of our our
departments and allow I supposed to
deliver
effective public policy through the
benefits that can be accrued from data
management data analytics and indeed
data sharing and I suppose the objective
is to try and find the correct balance
between the potential areas and sharing
data and the vital importance in
protecting our citizens rights through
through through through privacy so we
have also established a date of forum
which brings together data privacy
activists industry key academics both
from the legal and indeed from the
technical area and the I suppose the
parallel ambition is that we will
continue to grow within the analytic in
the data analytic space at a continue to
grow our country as a hub for
technological investment and and all
that comes from that from job creation
and research and development just
briefly and mindys going to keep me
honest on the time because we're going
to have a little Q&A and I'm always kind
of worried when you're the last speaker
in a session because I can sense the
ambition for coffee and all the rest of
it but and since my appointment I
suppose the pace of the European Union
data protection regulation has picked up
speed now I'm talking about speed of the
European Union level of speed which is
different perhaps from the level of
speed the rest of us would would
envisage since our presidency it has
been it has been a very key area and we
are very very strong supporters in
Ireland and in fact I should say that
the Irish position the United Kingdom
position the Dutch position and another
number of European countries is indeed
very very similar there's there's almost
no difference in fact between the Irish
of you and most elements of the data
protected protection regulation and the
view that there would be here in the UK
we all are aware that given the
remarkable speed and pace of technical
change that the fact that Europe is
operating under 1995 laws it is to be
frank ridiculous
eight years before em before companies
like Google or Facebook even later
appeared so the rules the laws the
direct if we have is not for fit for
purpose and we consistently hear our
commissioners in particular are talking
about Europe needs to be placed to take
advantage of technological developments
and we must of course do this while
ensuring that we put the rights of the
citizen at the heart of everything that
we do so therefore it's vital that the
new rules we put in place are working
workable and that they do not increase
ideally they should reduce the levels of
administrative burden and provide
consistent applications of the rules and
that we create the right environment to
create jobs and growth while also
protecting civil rights digital rights
and data protection and privacy we have
been strong supporters of the principle
of the one-stop shop and from the outset
of negotiations we have made that very
clear this new system will make it
easier for European Union citizens when
it comes to enforcing their rights
across or 28 member states as you know
under the regulation is currently
proposed any EU citizen will now be able
to go to their National Data Protection
Authority for complaints covering
breaches anywhere in the european union
and the one-stop shop if it is
implemented correctly I will also be a
huge benefit for companies it will allow
a company that has a presence in more
than one member of state have a single
regulatory point of contact this is
vital if we believe in any sense in the
digital single market and having the
capacity for businesses to function here
in an efficient matter this new citizen
most crucially protect protect against
delays and additional costs for both
citizen and businesses and I think at
this time it is vital that Europe does
not send the wrong message as to how we
conduct and do our business now we have
seen significant progress
but there is very very much more than
sorry the much more work that needs to
be done before June's crucial meeting in
Luxembourg when the Latvian presidency
hopes to see negotiations are concluded
but there are a significant number of
areas which will have to be discussed
the right to be forgotten and i know
very self-conscious about using the term
the right to be forgotten and of course
profile as well or both areas complex
areas and they raised the question of
course between the balancing of rights
in relation to profiling we support the
current proposals but we need we need to
ensure that we don't stifle the
potential for innovation our preference
is for improved transparency and a
prohibition on discrimination to be
included within within the regulation
can I just say it's fascinating when we
talk about you know the rights the
freedom of expression we have
significant engagement at ministerial
level with the 27 or the Member States
and indeed quite a significant
interaction as well of course with
politicians from the United States of
America and what is striking is the
cultural difference and differences that
we have as a group of people on either
side of the Atlantic when it comes to
this competition and balancing of Rights
certainly in the UK in Ireland and and
even more so in the United States the
ambition to have strong laws around
freedom of expression freedom of the
press are very much to the forefront as
you move across into the European Union
and there are many cultural reasons for
this privacy law becomes a much more a
much stronger motivator from the
political systems and from the
government systems and I think we need
to understand the dynamic and we need to
see exactly where our partner companies
countries rather are coming from in this
space have to try and understand their
histories which are different I think
from the histories that we have perhaps
as you push across further west and
explain and to current encourage energy
indeed where we're required of course to
be willing to compromise to compromise
with regard to fines we support in
Ireland finds that are fair and that are
proportionate but we do need to avoid
having exemplary fines and again we need
the regulation to be clear so that
people know exactly what is proposed and
what is likely to be the case as they go
through a process we very strongly
support of course the principle of
privacy by design which will ensure that
data protection safeguards will be built
into products and services from the
earliest stage of development and here
again I think particularly in many
government departments in many states in
Europe data protection privacy has come
at the end of various processes and laws
and rules and regulations and we need to
see everybody whether it is involved in
business or in the state having the
issue of data privacy at the beginning
of the process so that it's designed
into the very architecture or whatever
new regulation is coming down the road
savings for business again the numbers
you hear sometimes are astronomical
there naturally very vague it's a bit
like the potential money that can be
accrued through T tip but some of the
figures are greater than a saving of in
the region of two to two-and-a-half
billion euro a year which even a
proportion of that of course is a huge
amount of money particularly in the
context of a continent that has been
starved of growth over the last at
number of years if I could just briefly
turn am i okay on time indium hanging us
together good I wish to turn your
attention to the very important area of
data analytics and indeed digital growth
in itself the reality for Europe and I
mentioned that we've 29 of the top 30
digital companies in the world and
Ireland there there are very many of
them of course based here in the UK as
well in other parts of Europe virtually
none of them however European
they are all American companies so we
have got to shift the balance back
towards this continent and the potential
that for the next generation at least
that some of these new companies and
businesses will be European ideally they
will be Irish but we can concede across
the Irish Sea a little bit to the UK as
well this growth will not come from
European protectionism large American
companies are not bad companies they
will not be I suppose surpassed or
emulated through protectionism they will
be emulated through innovation and
through competition and crucially I
think through research and development
spending here in Europe to that end we
have the largest single ever investment
in Ireland is in our insight our data
analytic new new company it brings
together four of our universities and
about 30 of the businesses 30 companies
as well we've spent 85 million euro on
on inside its proud to say it's now one
of the largest data analytic centers and
analytic hubs in Europe and last January
I had the pleasure of speaking in
Brussels of the launch of insights white
paper which is called building a
foundation of trust in big data and
Magna Carta for data so they're very
very ambitious indeed and it addresses I
suppose the need for businesses for
governments to approach big data and
data analytics from a consumer trust
perspective in the very first in the
very first instance so for Ireland for
Europe and to realize the full potential
of the 508 million people who share this
this great part of the world we're all
very fortunate to live in we need to
ensure the citizens have a very high
level of trust and confidence in our
digital environment so therefore I'd no
doubt that Magna Carta and other and
other such bodies across Europe will be
a huge benefit to the citizens that live
here in Europe so
in conclusion we are living in a work in
a world that sees the enormous potential
that technology brings to us and we have
to in all our discussions about data
protection and privacy also be aware
that there are people who are benefiting
whether it is in the health sector
whether it is in the education sector
and so many other walks of life from the
Magnificent freedoms from the
magnificent advances that has come from
digital and technical advances and as
I've said on a number of occasions it's
crucial that we work very hard to get
the balance right and that balance can
be achieved and in particular it is
vital that industry professionals
leaders like all of you give trying to
come to events such as this listen to
your peers I suppose take on board there
are considerations and their objections
it's very rare i have to say even in
some of the discussions with countries
who we are almost diametrically opposed
to or ideologically opposed to that
people come in bad faith that they don't
have a reasonable point to make and i
think certainly you know while in
certain elements of the data protection
regulation particularly the area of
appeal we have concerns in ireland if
concerns here in the UK and a number of
other countries i think through this
laborious sometimes process of consensus
which people can be critical of within
the European Union the reality is is
when you walk out the door of one of
these European processes at the end of a
regulation you still have 28 member
states signed up to something and that
in itself is very very powerful so I'd
like to thank the ia PP for I will take
questions for inviting me along today
and Mindy has her microphone and I'm
more than happy yes to take questions so
thank you very much for listening to me
this morning grow market
thank you very much it was a very
interesting speech i receive rumors from
results that the concept of Protandim
ization will not be any longer really
supported by the council could you
please share some insight with us about
this well you won't be the first person
who's heard a rumor from Europe I I
didn't see where you are actually when I
was getting the the water yeah I mean
there has to be huge potential in Sudan
I arrived a problem with the pseudonym
ization anything really that can allow
the potential benefit to be derived from
data that allows anonymity for people to
be protected there has to be huge
potential within that there is of course
a fear given the re convertibility back
that's implicit that you're actually
defeating the purpose of the pseudonym
and you know in the first place and that
data should be anonymised completely but
look these proposals are being discussed
as we speak I think in that particular
case we're very much in the area of if
we go too far we will be completely
stifling this part of the the planet
with respect to research development and
certainly for my point of view in our
point of view I I would be concerned if
there were to be any any sort of further
dilution in the in the proposals that we
think at the moment are quite balanced
but what you often I always wonder
should they say these things in public
forums I was wonder about that some of
the rumors that come out there they're
out I suppose to test the water Mike
Revis uses this quite often this idea of
such a rumor but if you talk about
privacy by design and if we take privacy
by design very seriously so employed
randomization or if you like so
term coding for example is a very
important and crucial parts there and
it's also understood on the other side
of the Atlantic if you go to he boss
it's a federal laws that protect health
information so limited data set is
they're exactly the same concept and we
should be very careful that you would
say goodbye to this concept in Europe
because fully in your numerous data I
should talk about age of big data do not
really exist any longer so we need a
concept set support research activities
with the form of a limited data set
where went well it's a term Jordan amuse
a shin is not really the best term well
the term may not be the best term but
but I suppose the principle of allowing
that balance occur whereby but I mean
your point your point is correct I mean
it will it will either function properly
and give full or it won't and that will
be back to the privacy by design element
about the terms and conditions and I
suppose ultimately back to the
confidence that people will have but you
have to remember in most areas and the
area you've picked is it's not is one of
the areas where there probably will have
to be some latitude for medical research
the health area but within privacy
design the explicit consent of users
will be required where the data is
anonymized or not in many areas will be
back to the users decision but we have
to be extremely careful sir because in
the health industry especially the
pharmaceutical research activities we
have the concept of protects identity of
the study participants since 1947 and if
you would now try to destroy it with the
data protection regulations that would
be really a shame and that is why we
have to be extremely careful with what
we are doing there I agree with you i I
don't I can't see the reason in the
pharmaceutical industry why it would
have to be the pseudonym for would have
to be used though I think in that
instance should be anonymised yeah but
for safety reasons it's not possible
because the reason why you use coded a
tour is since the pharmaceutical
industry do not know the identity of the
patient aside the physician knows our
identity and if you have a serious
adverse event what unfortunately happen
from time to time you have to be able to
immediately
re identifies a study participant and
therefore you need a code if you would
have fully a new numis data you could
not any longer identify the patient for
safety reasons we needs us if they avoid
you need it but but but you're back into
the data retention space here now about
what periods and what time and what
stages of the the specific m data is
that I mean it is unlikely to be one one
specific set of 41 industry but once
again it's not a requirement of so
pharmaceutical industry to have the data
coated see it's a requirement from the
patient because if they have a problem
is they're held so would like to be
secured and if you cannot do this and
with fully an inverse data you cannot do
this therefore we have to be extremely
careful what we are doing there so that
is why the European Parliament
introduced a concept of ploy demise data
and to be honest the council so far did
an extremely good job to even implement
a form of a concept of framework by code
of conducts or so if this would not be
any longer supported on this side of the
Atlantic sand I see a big risk
especially for the pharmaceutical
industry because on the other side of
the Atlantic we do at the moment exactly
the opposite that's right as I say I
mean it i think it's going too far to
say it's not going to be supported on
the side of the Atlantic though it but
it is a matter for am as you can see
fairly detailed discussion any other
questions I I'd like to bring us back to
article 7 and the right to be forgotten
and to erasure and which you just
touched on because I'm interested in and
what you think the tone in Brussels is
around this bearing in mind the cultural
differences that you highlighted and and
I also feel very respectful of in Europe
is but is their appreciation around
article 7 to the rights of individuals
to have access to good journalism and
free journalism as well as the rights of
individuals to to be forgotten if that's
even possible I mean I dislike
phrase as well because it seems such a
simple provision but as we know article
80 is being watered down a little bit
and this simple provision that had its
roots around perhaps protecting
teenagers who didn't like their social
media pictures has much more
far-reaching impacts as we're seeing at
the moment it's almost like a political
tool in many ways and yet I I'm not sure
I don't know what you know what's being
spoken about in the rooms in Brussels
and it'd be really interesting to hear
your your view on this well it's it's
firstly to describe it as a view from
Europe would would be that there are
many different views from you know from
from all sides I mean it strikes me it
has always struck me that you know what
we had was a European European Court of
Justice ruling that just pulled the
first piece of the thread and as you
pull it more the whole garment is has
you know sort to come away and now it's
been it's being stitched back together I
mean as as I say that there's real
clarity and acceptance that when you're
talking about you know postings by
underage young people who may have made
a mistake you know or whatever else and
and there's real clarity about I suppose
directing very large multinational
search engines as well and the resources
they have and I do feel there is there
is yes there is there is a political
element to this in some quarters I think
to be blunt to think there's an active
American element to what I think there's
as I said there's sometimes a simmering
protectionism and then there's a more
understandable ambition ambition in fact
that there would be greater I suppose
competition within the market and indeed
that Europe would play apart within that
competition so the third part is more
understandable a more reasonable than
the first two parts and you know and
then you move to the other side rather
flippantly mentioned politician to their
a good example journalists
I suppose would be in another category
whereby you know it is vital for
democracy in Europe that the concept of
freedom of expression you know freedom
of association that that is protected
and it suppose we have a job in certain
countries to to make the point that ok
privacy rights were very very much
hindered during a period in Europe's
history but so were other rights such as
freedom of expression and and you know
both rights were actually removed and to
try and I suppose focus not on the the
big names and the many billions of
dollars that they take out of Europe but
but rather the underlying rights that
they support because you know these
companies are making advertising money
because hundreds of millions of
Europeans use the many many times a day
that's a choice a free choice that's
made by all of us so I suppose the sense
that the sense i think that i'm getting
is that there is a sort of a gradual
acceptance dash that we do need to move
to you know to to a greater balance and
that that the concept of the right to be
forgotten and as you say i mean you know
it was never a sort of a term that was
meant to define a European policy but
that we also have to have to enshrine
within within the data protection
regulation in fact all of the rights
that's that that there is better balance
and I think I think we have done quite a
good job particularly if I may say from
Ireland and the United Kingdom in a
number of other countries and actually
making this point reasonably but it
needs to be made because it's not just
such just important for people in
britain or ireland it is just as
important for people in Poland drop
wherever else they may be now Poland's a
bad example actually cuz the poles the
Polish government actually supports the
position we have here in ireland united
kingdom's well but i mean in the east
generally
give a quick question I can take a quick
question these are always dangerous too
quick question super quick what can the
Irish government do about the fact that
the competence of the Irish Data
Protection Commissioner seems to be
unfairly challenged by other data
protection authorities in Europe well
they're not unfairly challenged we have
a very strong tradition of independent
courts Director of Public Prosecutions
we will be under the new regulation bone
by the exact same laws as they will in
every other member state and anyone who
feels a judgment of the Irish DPC is is
there only us in any way we'll have a
course to the courts we have doubled
resources we've opened a new office and
I think we will show beyond any doubt
that Ireland will be more than capable
willing and ready to regulate in the
best interests of our citizens and the
citizens of other parts of the your
European Union we're very proud proud
Europeans and we won't be found wanting
so my concerns are zero it's my job to
get them the money so thank you very
much indeed thank you